WTH, People? Shooting in Denver

[studemax]

Has the country just gone crazy, or are the cutbacks in mental healthcare just coming back to bite us in the ass?

http://www.kansas.com/2012/07/20/2414435/police-respond-to-shooting-at.html

[Monk]

Saw that on the news this morning.........that's really effed up.

[Barry Donovan]

mental has a physical origin.

stay healthy.

I wonder what super spores are stabbing peoples brain like ricin in the hot sun.

[Grumpy]

I know we are the United States and everyone is innocent until proven guilty by a court of law but this scum bag should never have been taken into Custody other then in a body bag!

[38P]

A horrible event.

I've sometimes worried about how vulnerable we are at so-called "soft targets." Anyone who ever saw "Black Sunday" (1977) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sunday_(1977_film)) has undoubtedly thought about the horror that could happen if an insane person or a terrorist attacked the crowd at one of our events.

Now we have a culture where an increasing number of disaffected and even mentally ill persons are unlashed from the moorings of common decency and elementary human morality. Periodically this results in horrific carnage, such as the Oklahoma City Bombing, the Columbine school massacre, the Fort Hood Massacre, and now one of the darkest of dark nights.


I'll not speculate as to the precursors behind the gunman's murderous spree of terror. I won't grandstand for special interest "points." I'm not going to use this today to broadside defects in our permissive culture. But I will think and pray for the victims. And I'll worry more about when something horendous like this more directly affects the automotive/racing community.

[catchmeblue70]

Screw a body bag...bring back some old west style justice and let him hang. Hell, make it a family event, pack a picnic, and watch a murderer get what he deserves.

[38P]

But the inherent problem with "old west style justice" is where to draw the line. And who decides?

Sure, it's easy to judge in a big, public murder like this one. But what about a garden-variety drive-by shooting,or a lower-profile murder? Or an alleged occassion of self-defense that results in homicide?

The system, as slow, expensive and imperfect as it is, is designed to fit all of these crimes . . . to insure the best way we know how that an innocent person . . . or a person with a valid excuse . . . has due process: an opportunity to be heard, to confront the evidence, and to be judged by a jury of his peers. That means that the same rules apply to those the crowd concludes from media reports are guilty.

I cannot support a return to the days when "justice" by lynching was meted out by enraged mobs. It gets out of hand.

[Deaf Bob]

Utterly speechless...

[STINEY]

The system, as slow, expensive and imperfect as it is, is designed to fit all of these crimes . . . to insure the best way we know how that an innocent person . . . or a person with a valid excuse . . . has due process: an opportunity to be heard, to confront the evidence, and to be judged by a jury of his peers.

You speak nothing but the truth Speedzz.

However.

The system has also bred an environment that understands that there are no immediate repercussions for ANY actions, and that any repercussions will be mild and extremely delayed, if ever.

Our criminals know this.

There needs to be enacted a return to an environment where people weight the results of their actions against the drive of the actions, and find the drive wanting. Therein lies the way to a less violent society.

[SuperBuickGuy]

A horrible event.

I've sometimes worried about how vulnerable we are at so-called "soft targets." Anyone who ever saw "Black Sunday" (1977) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sunday_(1977_film)) has undoubtedly thought about the horror that could happen if an insane person or a terrorist attacked the crowd at one of our events.

Now we have a culture where an increasing number of disaffected and even mentally ill persons are unlashed from the moorings of common decency and elementary human morality. Periodically this results in horrific carnage, such as the Oklahoma City Bombing, the Columbine school massacre, the Fort Hood Massacre, and now one of the darkest of dark nights.


I'll not speculate as to the precursors behind the gunman's murderous spree of terror. I won't grandstand for special interest "points." I'm not going to use this today to broadside defects in our permissive culture. But I will think and pray for the victims. And I'll worry more about when something horendous like this more directly affects the automotive/racing community.

I always wonder what part those films/books have in giving people ideas? Wasn't a Tom Clancy novel - Debt of Honor that detailed, prophetically, the events of 9/11?

about mental health cutbacks - historically speaking, this age is no worse then most others when it comes to atrocities - so no, I don't think so

[SuperBuickGuy]

You speak nothing but the truth Speedzz.

However.

The system has also bred an environment that understands that there are no immediate repercussions for ANY actions, and that any repercussions will be mild and extremely delayed, if ever.

Our criminals know this.

There needs to be enacted a return to an environment where people weight the results of their actions against the drive of the actions, and find the drive wanting. Therein lies the way to a less violent society.

right we should burn witches on the accusation of any child
we should burn black fellows because they went into the wrong restroom or looked at a white woman
we should be sure to immediately do a final solution to any child who deemed "deficient" at birth (maybe even during pregnancy?)
we should allow cattle owners lynch farmers

I've met lots of criminals, and I have met very, very few whose waking thought was "oh, I'll only be in prison for life if I murder my rival/brother/parent"

Without a doubt the thing I hear most often is "I never dreamed it was possible for me to do ______"

So yeah, get a rope.

Or maybe we shouldn't judge society by its deviants, rather we should judge it by its motives. Because you can never tell the measure of a person (or society) until it is tested.

[STINEY]

about mental health cutbacks - historically speaking, this age is no worse then most others when it comes to atrocities - so no, I don't think so

I'm with SBG here. People have always been, and will always be, people. Now the "media" on the other hand has lost any shred of decency they might have once had, and are all about sensationalism at ANY cost.

Which is ultimately the fault of those aforementioned people, who can't wait for the next blast of "news". They just have to have it, 24/7, and the gorier the better.

[STINEY]

right we should burn witches on the accusation of any child
we should burn black fellows because they went into the wrong restroom or looked at a white woman
we should be sure to immediately do a final solution to any child who deemed "deficient" at birth (maybe even during pregnancy?)
we should allow cattle owners lynch farmers

I've met lots of criminals, and I have met very, very few whose waking thought was "oh, I'll only be in prison for life if I murder my rival/brother/parent"

Without a doubt the thing I hear most often is "I never dreamed it was possible for me to do ______"

So yeah, get a rope.

Or maybe we shouldn't judge society by its deviants, rather we should judge it by its motives. Because you can never tell the measure of a person (or society) until it is tested.

Whoa, man whoa...... you read far more into that than intended. I was not defending Catchme's position, merely taking the stance that we are too soft on CONVICTED (by the system) criminals.

Should we hang a person within hours of deciding they are guilty? No.

Should we let them suck on the public tit for decades, acquiring free college degrees and such? To this I also say no.

There is middle ground in there somewhere. We just need to recognize this and strive to get there.

[Deaf Bob]

I'm with SBG and Stiney... No different thru the years...
Grew up in an insitution.. My crime, fault, defect? Deafness..not fit for society..
Saw mental illness, retardnation first hand...
We now have IMMEDIATE news feeds.. No editors to CONTROL content...ie: CENSORSHIP
Yeah, they closed Fairview, the place for people with retardation and other stuff related, so we see them more on the streets, running away from half-way houses...
Repression, surpression were the methods most used...
I'd much rather be happy and jovial than sad and manicial..

[Deaf Bob]

Whoa, man whoa...... you read far more into that than intended. I was not defending Catchme's position, merely taking the stance that we are too soft on CONVICTED (by the system) criminals.

Should we hang a person within hours of deciding they are guilty? No.

Should we let them suck on the public tit for decades, acquiring free college degrees and such? To this I also say no.

There is middle ground in there somewhere. We just need to recognize this and strive to get there.

Son in law is LEO...cannot tell you how many times I have seen him come back from court, where judges slap the wrist of child molesters, drunk drivers and other such menances to society.. Dots his i's crosses his t's to put away people who hurt children, run over people in a drunken stupor...only to have a judge say (slap wrist) don't do it again Only to arrest the same person for the same crime hours/days after court..

In the place he works, a woman asked for a restraining order, judge denied it, the hubby that the order was against went to her house and shot her, their 2 kids and himself... Who knows if they would be alive if the restraining order was given, the judge defended himself saying he did not see evidence to support her claim..