The Economy

[bnjny]

Re: The Economy

2 things...

1. I'm Very impressed with the level of conversation without delving into politic's... seriously... well done!!

2. Until you've been an American witnessing poverty in a third world country it's best to understand you can't comprehend poverty. We have clean street corners to sleep on...

Keith

Ding!

[Not A Duster]

Re: The Economy

1. I'm Very impressed with the level of conversation without delving into politic's... seriously... well done!!

Yup.

Nice to discuss touchy subjects like this without people resorting to name-calling or cheap shots

2. Until you've been an American witnessing poverty in a third world country it's best to understand you can't comprehend poverty. We have clean street corners to sleep on...

Well - I'm not an American, but I have witnessed such and I do understand. Spend some time in a country that has recently suffered through civil war and it will open your eyes.

That said, we in the west have built a society where if you are willing to work, you should not have to live in those kind of conditions. Unfortunately, there are forces at work who wish to change that - to bring us down to near third-world levels. From the uber-rich who would see the rest of us become peasant-like servants to them to the apologists who feel guilt over our success and feel we need to lower our standard of living because others don't enjoy the same. :

[JeffMcKC]

Re: The Economy

"Greed" is "ambition that has gone too far"

I would say one mans greed, is another mans ambition, to keep in in the context is like "What is a Street Car?"

In Nature there is always the tie system Queen Bee and Worker Bee's

My son and I where watching the new Movie National Treasure 2 ( I love these kind of shows) he is 13 he said why do they have those guys on Mount Rushmore, I told him those are great men of our Nations History, he said why don't they have any newer ones anywhere, I told him those men thought more of the Country than of themselves, we have not had any after them that have.

Ever think of the kind of guys it took to make the founding documents and where we are today and what they would think of what we have done with the Freedoms they set in the ideals they wrote about and what we bicker over now?

[Eric68]

Re: The Economy

Certainly ethics isn't always an easy black and white kind of thing. But "ethical" is the difference between ambition and greed IMO. I have operated my business in an ethical manner and as a result have been successful as a business manager for 12 years in a field where so many people get fired, loose customers, etc. It can be done.

Bottom line -- if you lie, cheat and/or steal for gain you are unethical and "greedy" -- if you behave in an ethical manner you are ambitious. I have seen many greedy people come and go in this business; they succeed for a short while and fizzle out quickly.

I understand that some people believe that morality and ethics are relative -- what is right for one man is not right for another. I personally am old fashioned and believe that there is one "right and wrong" and it applies to all people. I know that is getting close to religion, so I'll stop there ;)

PS. Tell your son that a guy on the internet says there are no more faces on Mount Rushmore because they ran out of mountain and money not because there haven't been any great Americans since our founding fathers ;)

[Schtauffer]

Re: The Economy

So, the business manager/CEO who lays off a bunch of workers because the wages they demand (thinking of UAW workers here) are not affordable-- is he greedy and selfish, or is he simply doing his best to keep the company afloat despite the greed of the emplyees who would ruin the compony by unreasonable wages?

The state of our economy is in sad shape because of greed, not motivation. Motivation is "what can I do"; greed is "what can I get."

[JeffMcKC]

Re: The Economy

Eric, its not there are not any great Americans just not been many with the Statesmanship shown by them.

They saw the power of limited Government, and limited its power, those today seek to increase its power and theirs.

As far as how this effects the economy a Unlimited Government, a over reaching Government, takes money out of the economy and interferes with the Free Market system such as oil production and refinement, and mandates of certain fuels to be used, costing us more, we can't drill off shore in the Florida, Cuba area but China can? Who do you think would do a safer job of it? China will walk away with the oil and we will be left with the spill, and be told how bad drilling is and prevent more by us, limiting the supply falsely and driving up the price.

[ethelkilledfred]

Re: The Economy

2 things...

1. I'm Very impressed with the level of conversation without delving into politic's... seriously... well done!!

I agree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is entitle to disagree, based on life experiences or mis-guided facts. Name calling means you ran out of facts for debate and are losing the argument.

2. Until you've been an American witnessing poverty in a third world country it's best to understand you can't comprehend poverty. We have clean street corners to sleep on...

Keith

I disagree, poverty is poverty, but I understand what your saying in that some is more harsh than others, but they are still miserable and people are still hungry. Maybe were you live the street corners are clean to sleep on but their still cold and dangerous to sleep on. Just down the street from Car Junkie's shop, under the freeway by the train tracks, sleeping in dirt and littier from the freeway, you will find the junkie, mental insane, and the homeless trying to avoid each other, not to mention the graffiti taggers along with the the people picking up recycling. The freeway workers along with the train workers don't like going under there. There is a whole world under there living a different life, while people above rush to work, and back home everyday and never ever see this world. Also notice near were the shop is, how many people are living in motorhomes parked on the street. It got so bad that on certain streets you are not allowed to park there between 10pm till 6am.

[milner351]

Re: The Economy

I'm not sure where my buddy got this - but I think it's on youtube some where - it's pretty darned funny, and probably more true than any of us want to admit.

Sorry I'm not more computer savy, I'd link right to it.

Ron Paul Who Owns You (Narrated By George Carlin).WMV

[min301]

Re: The Economy

So, the business manager/CEO who lays off a bunch of workers because the wages they demand (thinking of UAW workers here) are not affordable-- is he greedy and selfish, or is he simply doing his best to keep the company afloat despite the greed of the emplyees who would ruin the compony by unreasonable wages?

The state of our economy is in sad shape because of greed, not motivation. Motivation is "what can I do"; greed is "what can I get."

Taking this, and adding that I'm from a GM family(pop's worked for Olds-nearly 40yrs), many within the labor unions took huge advantage of the unions.
The tech's at the end of the line, that diag issues with the new cars-do the same jobs as I, have no more(usually less) training, and certainly don't have my expirience, yet they get payed, in some cases up to $40 per hr, and are considered "skilled" labor. How is that right? When guys such as myself are working for half that?

[SpiderGearsMan]

Re: The Economy

when we are pumping in the dealer , 40 bucks an hour would be easy
we are not busy anymore .I am currently packing up ramsery pontiac , moving all the equipment through the dealer group

[Fordplay0621]

Re: The Economy

Imagine how much money they could have saved if they got rid of half of the upper Corp. The Company I worked for has 47 Jr, Vps that really do nothing (Training). I'll take one of thier jobs for half of what they get paid now. I have been a Manager for an Aviation Company before, and I never once decieved the workers, they got thier Bonuses and always met the Deadlines. I left there for other types of work and they hav'nt met a deadline since, Not saying it was me but If the Workwers trust you they will work for you. ERON come to mind when the word Trust comes up. I've noticed that the Majority of the people that support the big business concept are the ones that have profitted from it. all the others that are the workers that got you there are still suffering, from the "F"ing you put on them. Good Job for those of you that have done well, Remember to take care of the ones that got you there, you will see them again.

I saw a story of a CEO who Embezzled quite a big sum of Money from his company, They let him Plea Bargain, then let him go, and gave him $2.7 Million Sepration Pay. (Should have gone to Jail) their employees did'nt get a raise for nearly nine months after that.

[Eric68]

Re: The Economy

So, the business manager/CEO who lays off a bunch of workers because the wages they demand (thinking of UAW workers here) are not affordable-- is he greedy and selfish, or is he simply doing his best to keep the company afloat despite the greed of the emplyees who would ruin the compony by unreasonable wages?

The state of our economy is in sad shape because of greed, not motivation. Motivation is "what can I do"; greed is "what can I get."

It's hard to make a judgment call on such a general example, but I would say that the CEO is doing his job. As long as he doesn't break any contracts (lie, cheat, steal, etc.) in the process I think that layoffs while unfortunate are completely ethical. There have been companies that wouldn't lay anyone off or change their business cost structure to be competitive in the market and as a result they are out of business or bought out.

By the way, at my last company there were two rounds of layoffs during the 10+ years I worked there. Every time there were more managers cut loose than service technicians. Fortunately I was not one of the managers let go -- perhaps performance is what kept me alive (not bragging, I just worked hard and made millions for that company). Ultimately I got tired of the lack of security for managers so I left. I found another job that was a step up with a growing company. I have seen layoffs at hospitals too and invariably they start with management, then support staff -- the nurses (money makers) are almost always safe.

Don't get me started on ENRON. Those guys screwed a lot of people and broke a lot of laws -- pure GREED. Same with Worldcom.

[dieselgeek]

Re: The Economy

Imagine how much money they could have saved if they got rid of half of the upper Corp.

stop right there, and imagine how any company would run without half of the "upper corp." Think the labor force can handle all the compliance concerns it takes to run any kind of business today? Do you think that upper management just sits there and spends their time thinking about how they can "screw" their employees?

Sorry to offend, but it sounds to me like someone isn't spending any time considering what it's like on the other side of the fence, and I got news for you - the grass isn't always greener.

[Schtauffer]

Re: The Economy

Sorry to offend, but it sounds to me like someone isn't spending any time considering what it's like on the other side of the fence, and I got news for you - the grass isn't always greener.

Being in management sucks. Everybody second-guesses even the best of decisions. You basically have to pick who is going to be pissed off at you-- upper management, employees, or customers. It is rare that all three are happy.

[Fordplay0621]

Re: The Economy

I've been at the Mid Top and at the Bottom, I'll take the Middle Ground anytime. Right at the level that I can go home feeling like I did my part, and I don't have to take it home anymore. I make more than my Supervisors cause they dont get paid for thier first 4 hours of overtime, and then Overtime is regular rate. U to 69 Hours. I get paid Time and a half and Doubletime on Sundays if I work all seven days. $74,000 a year, Supervisors make about $65,000. But, they get to park closer to the Hanger, I guess that's worth $9000 a year.