Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Quickie Bonneville In-Car Video - take a 277mph ride in the #97 car

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Quickie Bonneville In-Car Video - take a 277mph ride in the #97 car

    Been slowly working through all the video footage that Randal captured (he ran our 3 video cameras at Bonneville last week, I am SO thankful to have him there because I was overloaded with debugging electronics issues).

    I haven't finished the Masterpiece yet but figured some of you might like to watch the front-view camera with the Megasquirt data overlay.

    I know there are going to be questions about the data. Fire away!

    Last edited by dieselgeek; August 30, 2012, 12:09 PM.
    www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

  • #2
    THANKS Scott!

    I was noticing the throttle position, which never got over maybe 62% or so. Mine would read 110% (Keds thru the floor) if I had a way to record it. But I'm not worried about swapping ends at speed - not enough speed to make that happen.

    Good job to all. Can 300 be that far away? (The answer to all non-LSR folks out there is "Yes".)

    Dan

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DanStokes View Post
      THANKS Scott!

      I was noticing the throttle position, which never got over maybe 62% or so. Mine would read 110% (Keds thru the floor) if I had a way to record it. But I'm not worried about swapping ends at speed - not enough speed to make that happen.

      Good job to all. Can 300 be that far away? (The answer to all non-LSR folks out there is "Yes".)

      Dan
      I'm terrified by the fact that I liked that. I mean I liked that a LOT......a WHOLE LOT.

      Uh....Honey, can we get one of these?
      Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

      Comment


      • #4
        Guys, here are some data points for you:

        Because I know very accurately how much fuel the engine is consuming and the resulting air fuel ratio, I have a relatively accurate flywheel horsepower number. To do that ~275mph number Lee applied 985hp at the flywheel. This is not corrected for sea level, and God bless turbochargers and intercoolers that allow us to "bring our own atmosphere"

        The car is slicker than our guys estimated.

        As the tuner, and working with the builders (seriously, the Barton family are simply The Best), we feel that we can do 1900-2100hp continuous before running into other issues.

        I have no clue what the limit is for traction. The good news is, that's the job of Ryan Fain who is an expert chassis tuner (think 2400hp street cars that dead-hook in the rain)... I have faith that he can put down whatever he says he can.


        The other thing I'd like to point out is all the LSR Experts seem focused on Frontal Area and Coefficient of Drag. My own personal opinion is that Traction and Horsepower can overcome both of those numbers (we were told by many Experts that this car woudl hit the brick wall at 260mph or less).

        What's most importantto me is YAW STABILITY. Ever notice how many fast cars spin at speed on the salt? that's a lack of Yaw Stability and it doesn't matter how much power or traction you think you have, if your car isn't set up to be stable at speed - no matter how many wind tunnel trips you took - you're going to be spinning instead of winning.
        Last edited by dieselgeek; August 30, 2012, 01:37 PM.
        www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

        Comment


        • #5
          Frontal is indeed the most important basic aspect of going fast. If you and I have the exact same power but I have 1 sq/ft less frontal I will be faster. I don’t know who those experts could have been as there are plenty of brick walls from firebirds to 32 roadsters who have been or are going over 300 mph. So to say Lee couldn't go faster than 260 makes me laugh.

          But you do bring up a good point on yaw. The part you leave out is some classes can’t do anything about it due to the rules. So the Daytona with it wing struts has an advantage. Of course you will point out a couple other “fish” or “birds” that run in the altered class and can have some mods that may help. But as you gain more time on the salt (I too was sure about a lot when I started going back in 1979) you will find (IMO) that anytime you lose traction or run up against the “air wall” that without some type of tail you might get a view of the local mountains, several times!
          The longer I do this the more I realize what I thought I knew I didn’t. Our 1st pass off the trailer with the firebird in 1997 was a 264 mph qualifier (the rules weren’t as structured then as now). Because we couldn’t use any aftermarket or fabricated wings and things we used weight, lots of it. Our car never spun but I wish I could post the in car video of our first 300 mph run. You’d see that traction was an issue for us too, even with a 368” small block.
          Lee will be knocking on 325 mph before we all know it, you guys did good.

          You can find the in car video on the Kugel Komponents website.

          If you watch the video notice that he tries to shift into heigh gear twice due to spinning the tires. He finally just pulls it into 4th and finishes the run. This was the first run over 300 but it was a terminal speed. Over the next 2 days we qualified at 301 and averaged 300.787 mph for the first record over 300 mph with a production bodied car.
          Last edited by Dynoroom; August 30, 2012, 02:20 PM.
          There are very few people in this world who's opinion I value, you are not one of them.

          300 in 1999

          Comment


          • #6
            Scott, just got to thinking that my above post kinda cuts into your efforts with Lee's car. If you want me to remove or trim off the self sevring part just let me know.

            Mike
            Last edited by Dynoroom; August 30, 2012, 02:23 PM.
            There are very few people in this world who's opinion I value, you are not one of them.

            300 in 1999

            Comment


            • #7
              Scott,
              Freaking awesome. What are the suspension graphs? x xdot or x double dot? Is engine temp going to be an issue with more oats dialed in? It seemed to climb a bit as the hemi topped 7K rpm. Ive watched it 3 times so far...
              BKB
              www.FBthrottlebodies.com
              Bruce K Bridges

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dynoroom View Post
                Scott, just got to thinking that my above post kinda cuts into your efforts with Lee's car. If you want me to remove or trim off the self sevring part just let me know.

                Mike
                Mike,
                Thanks for the video tip, glad Ive got the afternoon off! It rained cats and dogs at ElMirage yesterday.
                Scott,
                No dust for the Daytona?
                BKB
                www.FBthrottlebodies.com
                Bruce K Bridges

                Comment


                • #9
                  I spotted the vid a few days ago.

                  in awe of everytime.
                  I thought gears were more towards kugels video versus the many shiftings in the daytona. Is this just for now as 300 will need something to bring it off of the 212F 8k rpm.
                  Previously boxer3main
                  the death rate and fairy tales cannot kill the nature left behind.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Non LSR folks may not have an appreciation of what a HUGE accomplishment it is to even be discussing 300 mph as a realistic goal. I've heard cars, including Mike's, going past the 3 mile mark with the engine sort of making a surging sound. Nothing wrong with the engine - the driver is CAREFULLY searching for traction on the way to 300. Think about this - near 300 and not firmly attached to the surface you are driving on. The physics are almost incomprehensible. When the drivers walk around Impound they make a strange clanking sound. Not sure what that is....

                    Many engine builders can make enough HP to push a reasonably aero car that fast. Fewer can build one that will live at those speeds. Mike and The Bartons are among this elite group. The Air Dyno gets pretty unforgiving at those speeds. It's interesting to drive a car (even my truck at Wilmington) up to the point that it just can't push any more air out of the way. BTW - the Bonneville record for Truck's class (C/DT) is over 200. I'll be thrilled to hit 115 at the next meet. LSR is much harder than it looks.

                    Dan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DanStokes View Post
                      The Air Dyno gets pretty unforgiving at those speeds.
                      That's the incredible part, the load over how long a period the engine is under load. Not too many people build gas engines to hammer out that kind of HP for that long.
                      Escaped on a technicality.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheSilverBuick View Post
                        That's the incredible part, the load over how long a period the engine is under load. Not too many people build gas engines to hammer out that kind of HP for that long.
                        that is my love of following this..

                        the clanking must be steel changes. A g body does it after 160s for some miles...not that I would know legally.
                        Previously boxer3main
                        the death rate and fairy tales cannot kill the nature left behind.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dynoroom View Post
                          Scott, just got to thinking that my above post kinda cuts into your efforts with Lee's car. If you want me to remove or trim off the self sevring part just let me know.

                          Mike
                          NO WAY! don't change a thing. It's like me to be a little overly-proud of our relatively minor (so far) accomplishments.

                          Many here probably don't know that Mike built and tuned the engine that was the first blown gas engine to put a doorslammer into the 300s at Bonneville. I'm sure there were experts telling you "good luck, you'll never achieve that goal" and they did it with a baby motor to top it off.

                          And when I say door car, I mean it - their 'bird still had power windows that rolled down!!! Our car is a gutted production body with a max-effort tube chassis underneath.

                          Everyone should also know that when I got word I would be involved with this project - within fifteen minutes or so - i PM'd Dynoroom on here asking questions where he could have easily responded "piss off, blow up a few motors figuring that out yourself" but instead he set me on the path. To top it off, he made himself available on the salt to take my questions about how my plugs looked versus the EGTs I was showing (nobody here yet is asking about the 1850* EGTs yet...?.

                          That's as cool as it gets in my book. Dynoroom is the Zen Master of going fast with blown gasoline engines in door cars on the salt.

                          Don't change a word Mike.
                          www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BKBridges View Post
                            Scott,
                            Freaking awesome. What are the suspension graphs? x xdot or x double dot? Is engine temp going to be an issue with more oats dialed in? It seemed to climb a bit as the hemi topped 7K rpm. Ive watched it 3 times so far...
                            BKB
                            BKB the suspension graphs are Linear Travel in inches, but the fronts are NOT linear (I forget the scale). The rear are indeed linear (travel sensor moves an inch means the axle moved an inch).

                            The suspension data when applied to the coil spring rates in the front show the same thing the Chrysler engineers documented so well in an SAE paper (that we downloaded for $37, instead of spending thousands on a wind tunnel test). We have well over 1000 lbs of downforce on the front, and that's a bit of a problem as it's all right on the leading edge of the car's nose, a relatively wimpy fiberglass piece. Thinking about this, it changes the balance of the car at speed (good thing! we are more rear weight biased thatn we'd hoped), but the bad news is that it's quickly exceeding the weight rating of the front tires. We are making changes to the car's attitude as the Chrysler engineers did in 1970 on the Speedway version of this body. Lower the rear dramatically reduces downforce on the fronts, so they say - I have no reason to doubt them at this point, as our own data matches theirs almost to the T.

                            The suspension travel also showed us how much travel you need at Bonneville. It's more than most people think. It makes me more impressed at the guys with NO suspension that are still going fast...!
                            www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I watched that Video 5 times, congrats to all involved, too cool!
                              sigpic

                              Just an Old Drag Racer that still has dreams of going fast!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X