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Pdub, when you put your roll bar in; don't do this

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Deaf Bob View Post
    I do know when we had to weld to the floor, thicker plated bases would rip the sheet metal.. So 3/8 or larger plate is determial to the installation unless you sandwich it with more plate and bolts..
    When used thinner stuff, sheet metal or a little thicker, the bar would rip off..
    1/8 or so will bend with the floor.
    3/16 and 1/4 seems pretty stout.
    NHRA rules state the plates need to be two different sizes - so you weld a (example) 6"x6" plate under the floor, then an 8"x8" plate to the floorboard and weld the bar to the larger plate - then when the bad happens, it has to tear the metal through.... still, I agree with the comments, that bar should have been welded to a frame connector that was welded at several points to floorboard and to the bracing...

    Still, that is an awesome picture of how NOT to do it. I wonder if the builder bored holes in the plates so he could weld on top of the bar, then lifted the bar up and welded it to the plates.... given the ragged end of that bar, it sure looks like that's what he did. Normally, you bore a hole in the floor, drop the hoop in place, weld the top, then lift it up and slide full plates under the hoop.

    And that's still an amazing amount of energy to have flattened the roof like that....
    Doing it all wrong since 1966

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    • #17
      I have to agree with ya SBG.. That flat, front and back... Took some doing...

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      • #18
        makes me wonder about the glass Ford uses - I *tried* to break my back window on the Escape and couldn't. The article says they pulled the glass and put plexi in it.
        Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

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        • #19
          Bolt in roll bars and cages are fine, as long as the landing pads have enough area, and the backup plates on the underside of the floor pan are thick and properly done. Not sure if it is still the case, but in SCCA Showroom Stock class racing, you were NOT allowed to have a welded in cage ... the idea was the cage was for safety only, not to stiffen the structure of the car.


          cheers
          Ed
          Ed Nicholson - Caledon Ontario - a bit NW of Toronto
          07 Mustang GT with some stuff
          88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe 5-speed

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          • #20
            Looking at that photo sequence on the link, and not knowing anything to start with, that was just one of those moments. And going along with what DB proposed, the slanted roof, the front pillars slanted, that was just the perfect impact to completely squash the roof in the stock car? Even though I would have thought you could "roll" any newer car and come out better than that....mashed flat.

            And true it mashed the roof flat AND pushed the cage the roll cage through the floor, like the roll cage wasn't there.

            And something to think about, like maybe I have for maybe about 10 random seconds in my life, no real thought invested in it - get in the car and think and look. In a matter of a second I have to live in the space from the top of the door panel down. Strapped in. With a passenger. And a helmet. And a gearshift. In that space. It seems a sheer miracle those guys got out of that.

            And in that setting I'll bet it was a long time before they got out of it. Thank goodness for no fire.
            Charter member of the Turd Nuggets

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            • #21
              Pdub... Sent u an email of a tree falling on a car... Looks bad. But guy only broke collarbone, wife was ok
              Thus with roll bar, you will be fine.. It is "just in case" only because the other case can be nasty...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by fast Ed View Post
                Bolt in roll bars and cages are fine, as long as the landing pads have enough area, and the backup plates on the underside of the floor pan are thick and properly done. Not sure if it is still the case, but in SCCA Showroom Stock class racing, you were NOT allowed to have a welded in cage ... the idea was the cage was for safety only, not to stiffen the structure of the car.


                cheers
                Ed
                true, and this is true armchairing, but there's no way those tubes came through the floor if there were properly installed plates.

                Originally posted by peewee View Post
                Looking at that photo sequence on the link, and not knowing anything to start with, that was just one of those moments. And going along with what DB proposed, the slanted roof, the front pillars slanted, that was just the perfect impact to completely squash the roof in the stock car? Even though I would have thought you could "roll" any newer car and come out better than that....mashed flat.

                And true it mashed the roof flat AND pushed the cage the roll cage through the floor, like the roll cage wasn't there.

                And something to think about, like maybe I have for maybe about 10 random seconds in my life, no real thought invested in it - get in the car and think and look. In a matter of a second I have to live in the space from the top of the door panel down. Strapped in. With a passenger. And a helmet. And a gearshift. In that space. It seems a sheer miracle those guys got out of that.

                And in that setting I'll bet it was a long time before they got out of it. Thank goodness for no fire.
                most likely the doors still opened.... still, that would have been a ride, and I posted this so it isn't you (don't wreck, but if you do have properly installed, safety equipment)... there's no other Pdubs to replace you.
                Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                • #23
                  From SBG ^^^^
                  most likely the doors still opened.... still, that would have been a ride, and I posted this so it isn't you (don't wreck, but if you do have properly installed, safety equipment)... there's no other Pdubs to replace you. QUOTE:..

                  That is true.. As well as properly installed equipment..

                  Don't get someone whose first attemp is your car.. Pay for the peace of mind.. Or whomever helps, knows what he is doing..like Dan, man!

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                  • #24
                    I'm still chuckling about this other bit. That is a car which was built to show us how to properly build a mustang race car. Next time I read in any magazine how they're showing us how to do it right - I'm posting that picture.... should take them down one, maybe even two notches

                    What reminded me was the mia culpa in HR for proclaiming a person being dead who's very much alive
                    Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                    • #25
                      I'm thinking about letting Wolfe Craft Racing build mine - they build 25.x cert cages, I figure they can get a six point right. The way you put one in a Fox, if you stuff it through the floor and you've done the job correctly, the car is in worse shape than that one. I'd do a bolt in, still thinking about it, but that's not a place I want to test my crappy welding.
                      Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

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                      • #26
                        Maximum Motorsports was having a sale on their bolt ins. Although the shipping is expensive, so I'd weigh that over getting one built close to home.
                        I'm still learning

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post
                          I'm still chuckling about this other bit. That is a car which was built to show us how to properly build a mustang race car. Next time I read in any magazine how they're showing us how to do it right - I'm posting that picture.... should take them down one, maybe even two notches

                          What reminded me was the mia culpa in HR for proclaiming a person being dead who's very much alive
                          Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                          I'm thinking about letting Wolfe Craft Racing build mine - they build 25.x cert cages, I figure they can get a six point right. The way you put one in a Fox, if you stuff it through the floor and you've done the job correctly, the car is in worse shape than that one. I'd do a bolt in, still thinking about it, but that's not a place I want to test my crappy welding.
                          I like what John (Milner351) did with his falcon - a 2x2 steel tube, welded to the floor, and the roll cage ties direct to that

                          Originally posted by Bob Holmes View Post
                          Maximum Motorsports was having a sale on their bolt ins. Although the shipping is expensive, so I'd weigh that over getting one built close to home.
                          You are a punny man, Bob - shipping IS expensive because of the weight
                          Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; December 7, 2012, 11:55 AM.
                          Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Bob Holmes View Post
                            Maximum Motorsports was having a sale on their bolt ins. Although the shipping is expensive, so I'd weigh that over getting one built close to home.
                            Their units are nice. I have their 4-point bolt-in for my Fox. It fits about as tight to the roof as you can get, and still actually be able to install it without cutting the roof open. LOL


                            cheers
                            Ed
                            Last edited by fast Ed; December 7, 2012, 11:59 AM.
                            Ed Nicholson - Caledon Ontario - a bit NW of Toronto
                            07 Mustang GT with some stuff
                            88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe 5-speed

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post


                              You are a punny man, Bob - shipping IS expensive because of the weight
                              Can't slide anything by you.
                              I'm still learning

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                              • #30
                                How did it pass tech inspection?

                                Thought race cars had to have the cage welded in
                                "I live for myself and I answer to nobody."

                                -Steve McQueen

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