Lawyers.... ugh.

[oldsman496]

Paranoid? - think someone is involving you in a conspiritorial act? Nah... get a therapist.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...cellphone.html

[oldsman496]

If there is a pending lawsuit or an administrative proceeding (i.e. bar complaint), there should be a way for you to force your lawyer to answer questions under oath and to supply her records. The only time you'd likely need a handwriting expert is if the lawyer is willing to deny under oath (commit perjury) that: (1) the receipt is not from her office; (2) the signature is not her's; (3) she received no money from you; (4) there was never any agreement (contract) for any services.

Unless you paid in cash, there's also a "paper trail" through the banking or credit system. In general, there's usually lots of ways to prove a contract was formed and money changed hands.




Prevention Tip: if you hire a lawyer or any other "big ticket" service person (e.g. auto restoration shop, general contractor), you should ALWAYS get a formal contract or letter from them stating (at a minimum) the terms and objectives of the contract for services you've just entered into, and the time frame expected for receipt of the results.

If you don't, immediately send them a letter stating your understanding of what you hired them to do, how much you're going to pay them, and the time frame you expect for results, and include something along the lines of , "if you believe this letter is inaccurate in any way, please advise me in writing immediately of your understanding of our agreement." Deliver your letter by either yourself, or with a service that creates a delivery receipt. Just like Judge Wapner would say . . . Document everything.

Prevention Tip 2: Don't pay with cash unless you've got no alternative (or you're some sort of "off the grid" survivalist or a tax-evading crook . . . .). Pay with a check or credit card so that that there's additional "evidence" of the transaction. If they won't take anything but cash, that should be a "red flag" that they're probably up to something less than honest.

Like I said sherlock... I learn my lessons the hard way. I just don't use lawyers anymore and you make that clear when you enter into any kinda of "work" agreement with someone. Do unto others as others do unto you.

oh - and though there are no 'actual' lines on this page, i trust you can use your awsome power of observation to read between them.

[JOES66FURY]

Fixed it for 'ya.

Ah, good cover but too late now...we got you figured. We know the truth lol....

[38P]

^^^ talks like someone who doesn't like to get gouged in the eye by crooked contractors...

Fixed it for 'ya.

[JOES66FURY]

^^^ talks like a lawyer...

[38P]

My paperwork consisted of a simple reciept out of a reciept book and her signature, which I was told (in a letter from the Bar ASSociation) was not "proof" that a transaction had occurred. huh? anyway they advised -

-ED. - Sorry, I was not ADVISED. that i learned is a legal term which denotes a Lawyer giving someone information that they may use in thier own legal matter...It actually took about three letters and 5 calls to get a clerk to tell me that testimony from a known and court recognized handwriting expert MAY be needed in a situation such as mine..... putz's ------- :|

that i get an expert in handwriting to confirm for them that the signature was in fact-(my lawyers)-! The only 'expert' i could come up with wanted $850 to do an examination of the reciept. Bottom line.... I was basically forced to chalk it up to the "oh well. I learned a lesson here." life experience.......sometimes ya just get the horns. in a legal way.

If there is a pending lawsuit or an administrative proceeding (i.e. bar complaint), there should be a way for you to force your lawyer to answer questions under oath and to supply her records. The only time you'd likely need a handwriting expert is if the lawyer is willing to deny under oath (commit perjury) that: (1) the receipt is not from her office; (2) the signature is not her's; (3) she received no money from you; (4) there was never any agreement (contract) for any services.

Unless you paid in cash, there's also a "paper trail" through the banking or credit system. In general, there's usually lots of ways to prove a contract was formed and money changed hands.

Prevention Tip: if you hire a lawyer or any other "big ticket" service person (e.g. auto restoration shop, general contractor), you should ALWAYS get a formal contract or letter from them stating (at a minimum) the terms and objectives of the contract for services you've just entered into, and the time frame expected for receipt of the results.

If you don't, immediately send them a letter stating your understanding of what you hired them to do, how much you're going to pay them, and the time frame you expect for results, and include something along the lines of , "if you believe this letter is inaccurate in any way, please advise me in writing immediately of your understanding of our agreement." Deliver your letter by either yourself, or with a service that creates a delivery receipt. Just like Judge Wapner would say . . . Document everything.

Prevention Tip 2: Don't pay with cash unless you've got no alternative (or you're some sort of "off the grid" survivalist or a tax-evading crook . . . .). Pay with a check or credit card so that that there's additional "evidence" of the transaction. If they won't take anything but cash, that should be a "red flag" that they're probably up to something less than honest.

[oldsman496]

Dude! She had to have some travelin' bread . . . .

Seriously, lawyers hate bar complaints. So if you get ripped off by one, filing a complaint is a great way to protect the public. Also, many bar associations have a "fee grievance" committee to review improper billing complaints. Lawyers get disbarred all the time for neglect of client matters and for hinky financial transactions. So do what Judge Wapner would tell you to do . . . collect up all your papers, find out who polices lawyers in your jurisdictions, and seek redress in the bar disciplinary system.

My paperwork consisted of a simple reciept out of a reciept book and her signature, which I was told (in a letter from the Bar ASSociation) was not "proof" that a transaction had occurred. huh? anyway they advised -

-ED. - Sorry, I was not ADVISED. that i learned is a legal term which denotes a Lawyer giving someone information that they may use in thier own legal matter...It actually took about three letters and 5 calls to get a clerk to tell me that testimony from a known and court recognized handwriting expert MAY be needed in a situation such as mine..... putz's ------- :|

that i get an expert in handwriting to confirm for them that the signature was in fact-(my lawyers)-! The only 'expert' i could come up with wanted $850 to do an examination of the reciept. Bottom line.... I was basically forced to chalk it up to the "oh well. I learned a lesson here." life experience.......sometimes ya just get the horns. in a legal way.

[pdub]

because 3% defend the innocent.

I'm bound to get banned tonight - It's the lawyers who become the politicians that the poor pathetic sheep line up to vote for who become the lawmakers who do so poorly until we all have to line and vote for some other ones again, thinking that we'll get it right the next time.....

Who's wrong here? Who is really stupid, them or us? It's nearly hilarious. It's a joke on "us." The colloquial "us."

[Barry Donovan]

It's cliche, but 97% of them give the other 3% a real bad reputation.

because 3% defend the innocent.

[pdub]

. So the lawyers wrote a law ....

Don't forget Thump, lawyers don't write laws. But EX-Lawyers DO write laws, after they get promoted to the next level by lying to the public even more, on camera, and kissing babies and stuff.

[pdub]

Sorry, but that's at least 5/10ths of an hour . . . .

Yeah, now that you mention it, I don't think anything is less than half an hour...I'm glad you reminded me of that.

[38P]

Tuesday morning the stuff gets mailed to the Supreme Court. If nothing happens within one month there, then its media time. People love a good story where a crippled war vet gets screwed over.

I don't know about your jurisdiction, but getting a court do something other than emergency stuff in a month is kind of dicey in many states. If your local TV station has one of those obnoxious consumer reporters, then perhaps telling them your story wouldn't be a bad idea.

Most jurisdictions also have a "small claims" court division that set up for people to represent themselves in disputes over small sums of money. The maximum amount you can contest varies. Perhaps you could file a case there?

If you do, you'll need to have all the documents and witnesses necessary to establish your claim (e.g. proof you paid; proof of what you asked the lawyer to do; proof the lawyer "breached the contract" by not doing it). Small claims judges tend to have more patience for laypersons who don't know every little legal technicality because the small claims system is intended to be less formal. At a minimum,forcing your lawyer to show up in court and have to explain to a judge why he or she took money for doing "nothing" is a powerful attention-getter.

Finally, if you have proof your lawyer has totally scammed you (that is taken your money, sent you false bills through the mail, and not done the work billed) you can criminally complain to the local authorities. False billings is arguably mail fraud. However, I wouldn't do this until I obtained and inspected the lawyer's files and took other less drastic approaches to resolve the problem.

[38P]

The really screwed up part is that I cant do anything in the family law realm without one of these blood suckers. So the lawyers wrote a law that required you to use one of them so they ensure someone will be profiting every time you need any little thing addressed.

Job security.

Courts generally hate family law because it's so emotionally charged and it's now essentially a "no fault" system. Some think lawyers add a layer of objectivity and insulation to the family law system. However, I'd be shocked if anyone but a corporation is actually prohibited from going "pro se" (self-represented) in court. A law like that (i.e. applicable to individuals) would seem at first glance to have grave constitutional problems.

But unless one has unbeleeeeeeeevable discipline, outstanding academic skill, and an excess of free time to "read law", I wouldn't recommend self-representation in anything but the simplest of matters. A lot of the bread business lawyers pull down is from fixing messes that could have been avoided through legal advice beforehand. What was that old saying . . . "a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client."

[Thumpin455]

Dude! She had to have some travelin' bread . . . .

Seriously, lawyers hate bar complaints. So if you get ripped off by one, filing a complaint is a great way to protect the public. Also, many bar associations have a "fee grievance" committee to review improper billing complaints. Lawyers get disbarred all the time for neglect of client matters and for hinky financial transactions. So do what Judge Wapner would tell you to do . . . collect up all your papers, find out who polices lawyers in your jurisdictions, and seek redress in the bar disciplinary system.

All of that is set and ready to go. I gave her the option of returning my retainer or actually doing what I hired her to do but without any more funds coming to her. If she takes the hard role, says suck it in not so many words, then the grievance gets mailed. She has until Monday COB. Tuesday morning the stuff gets mailed to the Supreme Court. If nothing happens within one month there, then its media time. People love a good story where a crippled war vet gets screwed over.

[38P]

I hired a lawyer when I got divorced. She was highly reccomended. She took $1650.00 of my money and two days later moved her practice to St. Petersberg Fl.

Dude! She had to have some travelin' bread . . . .

Seriously, lawyers hate bar complaints. So if you get ripped off by one, filing a complaint is a great way to protect the public. Also, many bar associations have a "fee grievance" committee to review improper billing complaints. Lawyers get disbarred all the time for neglect of client matters and for hinky financial transactions. So do what Judge Wapner would tell you to do . . . collect up all your papers, find out who polices lawyers in your jurisdictions, and seek redress in the bar disciplinary system.