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Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

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  • #16

    Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

    I know how we can stick a Volvo head on it...

    Yeah . . . I've almost bought one of those "converted" Volvo 16-valve heads on eBay a couple of times . . . .

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    • #17

      Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

      Better testing with exhaust and we might have had it in 2012
      I guess they reigned in the "geek" too much (see the slug on Bob's quote in PHR)

      The good news is, the phone's ringing off the hook with people looking for EFI help in 2013 . . . At least one of those phone calls was a complete mind-blower for me.
      BANGSHIFT WORLD EXCLUSIVE: TC is assembling some of the "choice" parts he's hidden from his wife and is entering Amsoil Engine Masters '13 . . . with tuning by DG!

      In other news: Scientists have just found the missing portions of the Mayan calendar . . .

      Hugo Chavez declares he's not a communist . . .

      The Harbaugh brothers agree to settle the "Big Game" on a flip of Rick "Batmobile" Champaign's coin . . .

      The "Black Spy" and the "White Spy" team up to save the World . . .

      Lohnes dumps "Buford" for an LS-powered Trabant . . . .

      Chad donates his beard to "Locks of Love" and takes a job with the Ford Motor Company . . . .

      Freiburger buys a suit . . . .
      Last edited by 38P; January 23rd, 2013, 01:33 PM.

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      • #18

        Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

        Yep, the 400cid rule sucks, and they made sure to eliminate the possibility of our hidden IR intake taking the win next year. Better testing with exhaust and we might have had it in 2012.
        Okay, serious question. Will the trick intake work with a longer stroke? For some reason, "417" keeps popping into mind.

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        • #19

          Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

          Okay, serious question. Will the trick intake work with a longer stroke? For some reason, "417" keeps popping into mind.
          Yes, if the rules permitted anything other than a 4150-flanged TB (or single bladed forward facing TB). The trick to our intake was proper CSA and runner length to capture TWO harmonics (hence our two-humped power curve) during the wide 3000-7000rpm range mandated at EMC. A tweak to CSA and runner length by someone who knows what they're doing and it would work fine, but the TB rules and other manifold rules eliminate us for 2013.

          I'd still rather have finished second with an Early Hemi than finish first with ANY other engine (except maybe a Buick or a Y-Block ford, those are pretty cool antiques too). It's not who beat us that is noteworthy, it's who finished behind us that is noteworthy, including a couple well known store bought combos that SHOULD have dominated the competition...
          www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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          • #20

            Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

            It doesn't take much for a 6.2 Ford OHC to stretch out to 400...
            Paging Jack Roush . . . Paging Jack Roush . . . .Please report to the dyno at the University of Northwestern Ohio . . . .
            We're not on the OHC superiority thing again are we?
            Why? Who would believe something crazy like that?

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            • #21

              Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

              It'll be a cavalcade of CHI headed Fords. Nothing, but the gen III Hemi, comes close.

              I don't know what the fascination with 400ci as a floor is. They started last year at that floor, and eventually went to 300. I bet that they've just given up on getting mod motors into the competition.

              It seems strange that there have been far more SOHC cammer engines (which were made in very limited quantities) that have competed than late model mod motors (which have been made by the train load full).
              I'm still learning

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              • #22

                Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

                First I would love to have an FE SOHC

                It they wanted Ford Mod Motors set the limit at 295C.I. no stroking or destroking alowed.

                They want to Big Uns this time,thats cool.

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                • #23

                  Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

                  There's been no particular incentive to build the mod for EM competition. Most engine builders aren't familiar with 'em. The leading mod specialists haven't seen the need to "plant the flag" at EM (apparently they have all the engine building business they need). The EM rules packages haven't been stable enough to encourage investment in learning to build 'em (especially since the Coyote came out). The intake manifold rules have always been biased against 'em. And the dominance of the medium-sized, non-inline-valve "porcupine" wedges (CHI, SB2) and hemis under the EM scoring format is the final factor that discouraged them (before they were completely outlawed).

                  While there will always be a few nostalgia mills, the majority of the competitive EM '13 engines are going to be CHIs, Windsor Edelbrock Glidden Victors, and LSxs, with the occasional NASCAR "cheater" head (SB2, P6, FR9) and Gen III Hemi. It's what Hunkins thinks will generate sponsor ads and fill more of those eighty slimfast pages of PHR . . . .

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                  • #24

                    Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

                    I am curious to know what the rpm range they will be using for the competition. Since the scoring is based on a average of hp and torque through aparticular rpm range, maybe this year with the big cube minimum it will be all about torque numbers. I think that would be cool since that is what I look for on a dyno sheet run. I could care less at what hp an engine is making at 7800 rpm. I look at the beginning of the pull to see what the torque numbers are at low rpms. That is what gets my tanks going. Thats is what you feel when you hammer the big pedal on the street.
                    BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

                    Resident Instigator

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                    • #25

                      Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

                      I am curious to know what the rpm range they will be using for the competition. Since the scoring is based on a average of hp and torque through aparticular rpm range, maybe this year with the big cube minimum it will be all about torque numbers. I think that would be cool since that is what I look for on a dyno sheet run. I could care less at what hp an engine is making at 7800 rpm. I look at the beginning of the pull to see what the torque numbers are at low rpms. That is what gets my tanks going. Thats is what you feel when you hammer the big pedal on the street.

                      They award "Torque Monster" in each class (only one class in 2013) which should cover all your needs. 1.5 ft lbs per cubic inch is currently the Holy Grail, I hear some real badasses were able to best that number... at 10.5:1 on pump gas no less.

                      www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                      • #26

                        Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

                        Hmmm I wonder what old archaic motor did that.......
                        Nick Smithberg
                        www.smithbergracing.com

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                        • #27

                          Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

                          To stay competitive you look at the induction side of things to seek the advantage. Some of these platforms just can't be a player by design. With all of the rules people just go with what they know. It would be cool to see different engines used but the rules sort of limit those entries.
                          Nick Smithberg
                          www.smithbergracing.com

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                          • #28

                            Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

                            I'm sure Hunkins and Dulcich are hurting for newer combinations too. The same engines winning every year or every other year makes it hard to do feature articles... we ran into that problem.

                            Meanwhile, I think it's pretty obvious that the Early Hemi's magic was the induction package. The EFI was a nice way to optimize and make the score consistent, but was NOT the magic part (except maybe the injector placement similar to modern japanese sport bikes). As much as I'd like to take credit for the performance, the real magic was in the intake and heads and that's all Danny, Harry Brannan, and Nick.
                            www.realtuners.com - catch the RealTuners Radio Podcast on Youtube, Facebook, iTunes, and anywhere else podcasts are distributed!

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                            • #29

                              Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

                              At 400 cubes minimum, I think I would be looking at a short stroke, large bore creation to take advantage of unshrouding the valves. My first choice would be a 400 CID big block Chrysler with a set of Indy Big EZ heads.... 4-3/8" bore? oh yeah!
                              It's really no different than trying to glue them back on after she has her way.

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                              • #30

                                Re: Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

                                Typically they are an under square combination to make a bunch of torque at the hit. An over square combination is weaker at the hit but needs to make up a ton of ground at the upper RPM Range (very possible). Statistically the valued points are worth more down low. I prefer under square myself for the given RPM range but it would be interesting to learn from an over square at EMC.
                                Nick Smithberg
                                www.smithbergracing.com

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