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Minimum CID for Engine Masters '13?

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  • 38P
    replied
    plenty of new cars with high mpg 400+ cid
    Plenty? Name one that sells for less than $45,000. Name one that sells more than 5,000 units per year.

    The point is that EM changed the rules to favor certain competitors and to outlaw many others -- including some of our own who have invested huge sums of time and money into perfecting their bitchin, sub-400-cube combination. And EM changed the rules to eliminate whole classes of engines that Bangshifters are building. How is that a good thing?

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  • SpiderGearsMan
    replied
    plenty of new cars with high mpg 400+ cid
    Last edited by SpiderGearsMan; January 24th, 2013, 09:01 PM.

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  • Caveman Tony
    replied
    IMHO, I think its friggin' pointless to have any C.I. minimum.

    Why the hell would you bother doing the "avg power per cubic inch" formula then?


    Allow any damn size and design, and watch more people buy the mag because of the variety.

    The only thing I would limit is C.R. and maybe allow ONLY commercially available heads that have documented minimum production numbers.

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  • Scott Liggett
    replied
    Personally, I would like to build a 420", 4.155 bore x 3.85 stroke. A friend's is a monster.

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  • BOSSMAN
    replied
    Typically they are an under square combination to make a bunch of torque at the hit. An over square combination is weaker at the hit but needs to make up a ton of ground at the upper RPM Range (very possible). Statistically the valued points are worth more down low. I prefer under square myself for the given RPM range but it would be interesting to learn from an over square at EMC.

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  • Ron Ward
    replied
    At 400 cubes minimum, I think I would be looking at a short stroke, large bore creation to take advantage of unshrouding the valves. My first choice would be a 400 CID big block Chrysler with a set of Indy Big EZ heads.... 4-3/8" bore? oh yeah!

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  • dieselgeek
    replied
    I'm sure Hunkins and Dulcich are hurting for newer combinations too. The same engines winning every year or every other year makes it hard to do feature articles... we ran into that problem.

    Meanwhile, I think it's pretty obvious that the Early Hemi's magic was the induction package. The EFI was a nice way to optimize and make the score consistent, but was NOT the magic part (except maybe the injector placement similar to modern japanese sport bikes). As much as I'd like to take credit for the performance, the real magic was in the intake and heads and that's all Danny, Harry Brannan, and Nick.

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  • BOSSMAN
    replied
    To stay competitive you look at the induction side of things to seek the advantage. Some of these platforms just can't be a player by design. With all of the rules people just go with what they know. It would be cool to see different engines used but the rules sort of limit those entries.

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  • BOSSMAN
    replied
    Hmmm I wonder what old archaic motor did that.......

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  • dieselgeek
    replied
    I am curious to know what the rpm range they will be using for the competition. Since the scoring is based on a average of hp and torque through aparticular rpm range, maybe this year with the big cube minimum it will be all about torque numbers. I think that would be cool since that is what I look for on a dyno sheet run. I could care less at what hp an engine is making at 7800 rpm. I look at the beginning of the pull to see what the torque numbers are at low rpms. That is what gets my tanks going. Thats is what you feel when you hammer the big pedal on the street.

    They award "Torque Monster" in each class (only one class in 2013) which should cover all your needs. 1.5 ft lbs per cubic inch is currently the Holy Grail, I hear some real badasses were able to best that number... at 10.5:1 on pump gas no less.

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  • Scott Liggett
    replied
    I am curious to know what the rpm range they will be using for the competition. Since the scoring is based on a average of hp and torque through aparticular rpm range, maybe this year with the big cube minimum it will be all about torque numbers. I think that would be cool since that is what I look for on a dyno sheet run. I could care less at what hp an engine is making at 7800 rpm. I look at the beginning of the pull to see what the torque numbers are at low rpms. That is what gets my tanks going. Thats is what you feel when you hammer the big pedal on the street.

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  • 38P
    replied
    There's been no particular incentive to build the mod for EM competition. Most engine builders aren't familiar with 'em. The leading mod specialists haven't seen the need to "plant the flag" at EM (apparently they have all the engine building business they need). The EM rules packages haven't been stable enough to encourage investment in learning to build 'em (especially since the Coyote came out). The intake manifold rules have always been biased against 'em. And the dominance of the medium-sized, non-inline-valve "porcupine" wedges (CHI, SB2) and hemis under the EM scoring format is the final factor that discouraged them (before they were completely outlawed).

    While there will always be a few nostalgia mills, the majority of the competitive EM '13 engines are going to be CHIs, Windsor Edelbrock Glidden Victors, and LSxs, with the occasional NASCAR "cheater" head (SB2, P6, FR9) and Gen III Hemi. It's what Hunkins thinks will generate sponsor ads and fill more of those eighty slimfast pages of PHR . . . .

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  • Cyclone03
    replied
    First I would love to have an FE SOHC

    It they wanted Ford Mod Motors set the limit at 295C.I. no stroking or destroking alowed.

    They want to Big Uns this time,thats cool.

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  • Bob Holmes
    replied
    It'll be a cavalcade of CHI headed Fords. Nothing, but the gen III Hemi, comes close.

    I don't know what the fascination with 400ci as a floor is. They started last year at that floor, and eventually went to 300. I bet that they've just given up on getting mod motors into the competition.

    It seems strange that there have been far more SOHC cammer engines (which were made in very limited quantities) that have competed than late model mod motors (which have been made by the train load full).

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  • 38P
    replied
    It doesn't take much for a 6.2 Ford OHC to stretch out to 400...
    Paging Jack Roush . . . Paging Jack Roush . . . .Please report to the dyno at the University of Northwestern Ohio . . . .
    We're not on the OHC superiority thing again are we?
    Why? Who would believe something crazy like that?

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