Let's spec a cheap, lightweight performance car

[38P]

The future of pre-1948 Bangshifting thread got me thinking. . . .

Guys like Norm Grabowski (inventor of the T-bucket), Colin Chapman (Lotus 7), Cecil Kimber (Morris Garages a/k/a MG) and the early dry lakes racers didn't let lack of money or "1-800" parts shut them down. Instead, they fabricated new forms of high performance cars.

So what if we broke out of the mold of just copying traditional rods or bolting on parts to heavy Detroit iron? What would it look like?

Here's a starter suggestion -- one of those stripped-down "speedster" style cars at the beach race in this month's HRM got me thinking . . . how could you build a car almost as light as a speedster but with a bit of aerodynamics?

Then I looked up a late model stock car body -- they weigh less than 100 lbs and typically sell for less than $1,500 (far less than a fiberglass street rod or drag racing body). http://www.fivestarbodies.com/store/...parent=61&pg=1

So why not:
1. score a cheap SUV or compact pickup frame,

2. cut off everything but portions of the cowl

3. weld on a drag-style cage and some support tubing (which should be cheaper and easier than building a legal bull ring "late model stock car")

4. fab up a foam core or other lightweight floor/"cockpit liner"

4 hang a cheap plastic racing body . . . reenforced with some glassed-in foam and light tubing to attach the body to the cage/frame . . . .

5. Power it with something out of the junkyard, boosted with a cheap power adder (it wouldn't take nearly as much power to really MOVE a light car as it does a typical all-steel street machine).

6. As for weather protection and driver access . . . sliding side windows (e.g. "Two-lane Blacktop") and aircraft-style door openings shouldn't be too hard to fab up with some foam and fiberglass. Of course it could just stay T-bucket/roadster/short track stocker style . . . .

(I'm assuming that a light rebodied SUV/pickup could still be registered under the original VIN in most states)

Any other ideas? Anything cheaper? More radical?

[squirrel]

There's a lot of weight in a suv/pickup frame, that doesn't need to be there for what you're wanting to do.

A track T is kind of what you're after, isn't it?

[SuperBuickGuy]

The future of pre-1948 Bangshifting thread got me thinking. . . .

Guys like Norm Grabowski (inventor of the T-bucket), Colin Chapman (Lotus 7), Cecil Kimber (Morris Garages a/k/a MG) and the early dry lakes racers didn't let lack of money or "1-800" parts shut them down. Instead, they fabricated new forms of high performance cars.

So what if we broke out of the mold of just copying traditional rods or bolting on parts to heavy Detroit iron? What would it look like?

Here's a starter suggestion -- one of those stripped-down "speedster" style cars at the beach race in this month's HRM got me thinking . . . how could you build a car almost as light as a speedster but with a bit of aerodynamics?

Then I looked up a late model stock car body -- they weigh less than 100 lbs and typically sell for less than $1,500 (far less than a fiberglass street rod or drag racing body). http://www.fivestarbodies.com/store/...parent=61&pg=1

So why not:
1. score a cheap SUV or compact pickup frame,

2. cut off everything but portions of the cowl

3. weld on a drag-style cage and some support tubing (which should be cheaper and easier than building a legal bull ring "late model stock car")

4. fab up a foam core or other lightweight floor/"cockpit liner"

4 hang a cheap plastic racing body . . . reenforced with some glassed-in foam and light tubing to attach the body to the cage/frame . . . .

5. Power it with something out of the junkyard, boosted with a cheap power adder (it wouldn't take nearly as much power to really MOVE a light car as it does a typical all-steel street machine).

6. As for weather protection and driver access . . . sliding side windows (e.g. "Two-lane Blacktop") and aircraft-style door openings shouldn't be too hard to fab up with some foam and fiberglass. Of course it could just stay T-bucket/roadster/short track stocker style . . . .

(I'm assuming that a light rebodied SUV/pickup could still be registered under the original VIN in most states)

Any other ideas? Anything cheaper? More radical?

They've existed for decades... but you know them under another name - "tube buggy"

make it 2wd instead of 4x4 and you have a safe, light scaffold car

[BangShift McT]

Isn't this the rough basis of cars like HRM's Corvette?

[38P]

There's a lot of weight in a suv/pickup frame, that doesn't need to be there for what you're wanting to do.

A track T is kind of what you're after, isn't it?

A track T isn't very aero or "modern." The main advantages to the SUV/compact pickup frame are:

1. Dirt cheap
2. reduces the amount of fab work necessary to get on the road
3. Comes with some sort of reasonably modern suspension system and brakes . .. and parts can be sourced through any JY.
4. Probably improves crash performance (not really a consideration with most sorts of lightweight rods, though.

Most certainly if you fabbed up everything, it could be lighter and look better. But that would make it more challenging and time consuming to build.

Perhaps one could use one of the Speedway T frames if you didn't want a modern suspension and could fix the wheelbase issue.

[38P]

Isn't this the rough basis of cars like HRM's Corvette?

I recall a full tube-frame suggestion in HRM way back in the Leonard Emanuelson era. But recently . . . are they putting a body on the Vette Hack/Leaf Blower car?

I suspect even a C4 Vette is probably too expensive to use as a frame .. . although it does have a nice suspension and light weight . . . wheelbase might be a tad short for a late model stock car body (they're more around the dimensions of a GM "metric" framed vehicle)

[milner351]

Ask Stiney about registering his air cooled vw buggies - surely it's been done. The body could be as simple as riveted aluminum over the tubing or dzus fasteners on tabs welded to the tubing.

A guy here at work makes "rocket cars" they are essentially motorcycles with a cigar shaped body and an airplane like slide open cockpit lexan roof. They are narrow, low, very low rolling resistance small tires, 3 wheeled and have no reverse. They're fast and get incredible MPG - but you have to be a nut case to drive one on the freeway.

[38P]

They've existed for decades... but you know them under another name - "tube buggy"

make it 2wd instead of 4x4 and you have a safe, light scaffold car

Sure, the Ariel Atom immediately comes to mind. (And one could argue that a Lotus7/Caterham 7/Locost 7 is basically a "scaffold car" with a few body panels added in for looks)

But a bodyless "scaffold car" isn't very aerodynamic and has no weather protection at all. Besides, to register in most states without endless hassles, doesn't the "buggy" need to be based on a factory-built vehicle with a VIN?

[milner351]

Isn't Scott's buddies V16 two V8 monster registered as an IH scout in the land of fruits and nuts? Surely registration would be the least of your worries after building the thing from scratch. Does this mean you're taking up tig welding and buying a nice tubing bender? I'd like to borrow that bender when you're done... LOL! This is a great thought starter...

[38P]

Ask Stiney about registering his air cooled vw buggies - surely it's been done. The body could be as simple as riveted aluminum over the tubing or dzus fasteners on tabs welded to the tubing.

Greg Fluery [sp?] built something like that back in the late '70s . . . and DF ran the two engined tube-buggy in HRM a couple of years ago. But I'm guessing that something which looked like a real car would be a little more acceptable to the average rodder.

A guy here at work makes "rocket cars" they are essentially motorcycles with a cigar shaped body and an airplane like slide open cockpit lexan roof. They are narrow, low, very low rolling resistance small tires, 3 wheeled and have no reverse. They're fast and get incredible MPG - but you have to be a nut case to drive one on the freeway.

That's probably a little farther into the future than most Bangshifters are ready to go.

[38P]

Isn't Scott's buddies V16 two V8 monster registered as an IH scout in the land of fruits and nuts? Surely registration would be the least of your worries after building the thing from scratch. Does this mean you're taking up tig welding and buying a nice tubing bender? I'd like to borrow that bender when you're done... LOL! This is a great thought starter...

I'm not sure you'd need Tig if you used a production frame and mild steel tubing for the cage. If you wanted to invest in chrome moly lightness, Tig would be essential. But that seems to push the idea too far from "budget" or its '40s-style hot rodding origins (i.e. packaging JY parts in a cheap, light aero body)

[squirrel]

Most certainly if you fabbed up everything, it could be lighter and look better. But that would make it more challenging and time consuming to build.

On the plus side, you'd end up with something that I'd consider driving.

[PatricksDad]

Given the 3.5 seconds of attention that my addled brain will allow, won't the S10/SUV engine and trans placement pretty much eliminate any kind of "long, low & lean" form factor?

[realsteelfreak]

Wouldn't you be miles ahead building one of Speedways IMCA cars?

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/search-imca-body.html?attribute_value_string|Category=Side+Body

[Bob Holmes]

I had high hopes for this project:

https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/project-818/

But then they went all "roadster" on it. I was thinking that a VW TDI package in the back with a coupe body would be one hell of a fun and efficient car.