Bbc efi on a budget and best retro fit o/d trans

[Shawn Anderson]

Posting for a friend, he is building a street strip 71 Camaro. It is a 350/350 car right now. He is going to swap in a 500hp 468 with a hydrolic cam and oval port heads. He is considering EFI, what would be the best way to do this? He wants a system that can later be used with nitrous, so the self tunning stuff is out and we were both wondering about ms 3 if so what are all the parts needed? He is also looking toward a overdrive trans, what would be best a
700r4? What all is need for a 4l60? Is there a lower buck efi system could control the trans and efi.

[Scott Liggett]

Any auto/od trans that could handle the BBC with nitrous is $$$$$$$.

[TC]

Yap my buddy broke 3 700r4 cases with his roller cammed BBC and it didn't have nitrous..... And why no self tune with nitrous??, Run a wet shot, the Self Tune will take care of the rest...... It's the same thing I'd do with my LS1 camaro if I ran nitrous, hit it with a wet shot and have the EFI system balance out the AFR's, that way you don't need bigger injectors like you would with a dry shot and if you run it a little on the rich side the EFI system won't have to worry about adding fuel just taking it out, which puts less demand on the EFI system...... I'm actually looking into the Fast EZ EFI 2.0 for my '71 Camaro it supports E85 and up to 1200hp(on gas), it bolts on like a carb and you'll be up and driving it in a matter of a day..... Not knocking the MS stuff, but I feel there are easier ways to go to achieve the same results........

[Shawn Anderson]

Thought self tune would correct a/f ratio wich would be lean for nos?

[TheSilverBuick]

I'm waiting for the second time slip before I take any of his "ideas" as any kind of fact.

[TC]

Thought self tune would correct a/f ratio wich would be lean for nos?

What do you think is happening with all those guys running 150 dry shots on their LS1 Camaro's? The EFI system is correcting for the lean condition by adding fuel, but it's still going to run the AFR that the factory set for it...... And those nitrous kits are sold as PNP...... All I'm saying is use a wet system so the EFI system isn't taxed as much...... As for the EZ EFI 2.0 it does give you some custom tuning capability above and beyond the self tuning, it also controls ignition and datalogs.......... I'm just throwing it out there, you can take it or leave it, but IMO it's an option, especially if the guy isn't someone that wants to spend hours and hours and hours of reading so he can understand how to tune his MS...... Hell to this date I don't even think Randal has the tune down on his MS, Still tinkering with it........

Turn your late model Camaro into a 12 second rocket. This is a ''dry'' system that only injects nitrous oxide into the intake tract and relies on the factor E.F.I. to provide the extra fuel necessary, its that simple.

This is the EFI dry system

http://www.holley.com/05177NOS.asp

And this is the EFI wet system

http://www.holley.com/05168NOS.asp

And I only use NOS as an example I actually like Zex.......

[milner351]

Shawn - MS is the way to go - surely with the never ending bowtie parts available getting a BBC intake with bungs installed or enough material to have them drilled wouldn't be hard - between Randal and Scott and the team here you'd have it up and running without too much Drama -

I can give you the trans guys number here in town - you could pick up the trans on your way through some time - he's right off 94 at Haggerty. For BB and nitrous - it's either a TH400 and gear vendors for bullet proof set up - or - if you're not above swapping gears, to save money for the first drag week - run the TH400, a 9" and swap diffs, maybe ya'll will get lucky and win a GV !

[Shawn Anderson]

What is real power handling of a 700r4? Is a 4l60 stronger? Would think at this point in time you chevy guys would have this figured out and it would now cost $200 and could be had at any auto zone.

[82z]

the 4l60 is stronger than the 700 BUT it is still a dirivitive of the 700. A 200r4 is better suited to what he wants to do. Again it will need upgrades to live behind the torqe of a healthy bbc,then add N2O ......

[Bamfster]

I run a 700, granted it's behind a small block, but w/n2o the MPH indicates around 760 hp. It's lived for 6, going on 7 seasons. I see that TCI has just released a new upgraded 700 that they claim is able to handle over 1000 hp.

[Shawn Anderson]

I run a 700, granted it's behind a small block, but w/n2o the MPH indicates around 760 hp. It's lived for 6, going on 7 seasons. I see that TCI has just released a new upgraded 700 that they claim is able to handle over 1000 hp.

What stuff is in your trans? I would think a 4l60 would be tough, is't that what most of the late model gm stuff has?

[TC]

What stuff is in your trans? I would think a 4l60 would be tough, is't that what most of the late model gm stuff has?

4l60's stock will only handle about 400 ft-lbs, and realize it's not the HP that kills the trannies it's the Torque.... Saying that, your looking at at least $2000(probably more) for a 4L60e that will support the power your looking at..... And I would stay away from the 700r4 and the 2004r, they both use TV cables and if not adjusted properly will chew a trany up in a matter of a couple hundred miles..... Well that is unless you use a Constant pressure valve body, which is another $400 hit...... But then the 4L60E will need a trany controller, which is also a $400+ hit....... Basically either way by the time your done your going to be looking at $2500-$3000 for a trany...... Though if your a gambling man, there is a guy on Ebay that sells 2004r's rated at 750+HP for around $1500, but I would opt for the Constant Pressure VB so it'd be more like $2000....... I might go this way with the 2004r that is in my Monte SS to back up the Nitrous motor, since that will make close to 700hp on the juice......

[Thumpin455]

You can get upgraded parts for the 700/4L60, like a Beast Shell which replaces the commonly broken sun shell, better bands, and stronger parts. It doesnt cost that much more to do one that way, but its good to know how to rebuild them if you want to do it on the cheap.

If you want bulletproof and OD, then its the TH400/GV or a 4L80E which is based on the TH400 but requires an ECM to operate it. The 700 comes close to those with upgraded parts. I have a bud in Charleston that sells all the upgrade parts if you want to contact him.

[Shawn Anderson]

Thanks guys you are all helpful, Thumpin every time I see your firebird it makes want a early second gen firebird!

[Bamfster]

I'm far from an expert on the 700, but the one in my hoopty works. I went with TCI for the parts, and a friend that owns a local trans shop did the assembly ... he specializes in o/d conversions in hot rods. We did the upgraded/HD sun shell, hardened input & output shafts, Alto r/l clutches and new steels, upgraded pump and several V/B mods to increase pressure, etc. Believe it or not, there is not even a "shift kit" in mine .... it was all done with pressures in the valve body. As far as the TV cable goes, it's really a piece of cake to set up and it actually gives you a wide range of tune-ability along with the governor. With a slight adjustment of the cable on mine I can leave it in drive and it will shift at 6200 every time .... super consistent. The guys that tell the horror stories of killing the trans due to the TV cable adjustment probably have no business messing w/a trans in the first place. You can even mod the V/B to make it full manual and eliminate the cable altogether.

The other piece of the puzzle w/a 700 that I feel is important is the converter .... use a good quality piece w/anti-balloon plates, and DO NOT run a lock up converter ... eliminate all of the lock up from the trans .... the gain in mpg is minimal but the added parts and vulnerability are huge.