Two Cool Pontiac Wagons..

[Thumpin455]

Now if I could find a decent 58-66 Catalina 2 door, then that is entirely different. Im just not much of a wagon guy, since I have to have trucks up here. If I could find a 2+2 then whoa momma I would be building a big car.

[groucho]

I had this one around 5 yrs ago. 1 family owned, OG pnt/int

[groucho]

Love em both. I would think the Plum's a pretty rare color. Love the 428/4 speed on the other one too

[Deaf Bob]

Thanks! .. Answers the question..
Ex boss had a 421 tri powered, 4 speed, white interior, sorta rubyish color B'ville vert. . NEVER DROVE IT as far as I know.. Real shame! That car was perfect.. No flaws. 8 lug rims.. I wanted to buy it even tho I hate verts.. Here in OR, it's silly to have a convertable.. Unless they are always garaged! I went more places in the rain on my road bikes than all my convertable owner friends did combined...

[Thumpin455]

What OHC said, and also the 421 had the early 23 degree valve inclination with 2.0x" valves, and the 428 had the 14 degree heads with 2.11/1.77 valves. The 421 and 428 both have a 4" stroke with the 455's 3.25" mains, the 389 and all the other engines since the 326/370 have 3" mains. The 455 has a 4.21" stroke and can be bored to 4.21 +.060 easily. Engine mounts changes in 64 as well, and to stuff a 421 or 428 block in a 70-81 Firebird requires adapter plates, because the holes just arent there, but they go in A bodies easy enough. Pre 64 they used the old style mounts, not the saddle mounts so early stuff can be challenging to use.

1966 was the last year anyone but Chevy could use Tri Power, and the 428 came out in 67, that is why it was only a 4barrel engine.

As long as you get the valve pockets right for the heads, both engines are equally potent since they are only different in bore as far as displacement goes. The later heads flow better and have more potential than the pre 67 heads with 23 degree valves. The 428 HO was also rated at 370hp, and used big valve D port heads with small chambers. Only the 400 and 455 ever got round port heads, and the 455 had low compression with them. RAIV heads on a 455 is a very stout engine.

The main differences in displacements of Pontiac engines are the main bearings and bores. You cant bore a 326 or 350 to over 4" bore, but you can stroke them. Kinda ludicrous putting a 4.5" stroke crank in a 3.780 bore engine, but if its laying around why not? The 389 and 400 are closest, and the 421 and 428/455 are grouped together. The most popular stroke seems to have been 3.75" which is what was in every displacement between 326 and 400 which spanned from the 50s to the late 70s.

I would like to heave the green wagon, if I were into wagons. It would probably end up with a 400 being stuck in it while I used the 428 for something else, so its best I dont get them.

[Brian Lohnes]

Sweet mother of mercy....I want 'em BOTH!

[OHC 6 Sprint]

Thump455.. What's the diff between 421 and 428?
Which the better motor?
Is the 421 off the same platform as the 389?

I know this question was addressed to someone else, but if I may ...

The short answer is that a 428 is a .030 over 421 and that the 421 and 389 blocks were designed the same way, with the major difference being the main journal diameter. Anything that could be bolted onto a 421 could also be bolted onto a 389.

Now for the long answer ...

Pontiac changed their block and heads very slightly in 1964/5. The 389 and the 421 both spanned the change being produced through 1966. The 428 (421 bored .030 over) came out in 1967, along with the 400 which was a 389 bored .060 over.

The 421 block is reputed to be stronger. The 421 crank has different metallurgy than the 428 crank. The same is true of the 389 vs. 400 blocks and cranks.

Early 421 and 389 motors were equipped with forged rods from the factory.

The 421 could be ordered with tri-power while the 428 was only available with a 4-Bbl. (Also true of 389 vs. 400.)

Pontiac came within inches of putting their RamAir 4 heads on the 428 in 1969. (This was to be labeled RamAir 6.) There were no published specifications on the motor, but in factory trim it probably would have produced well into the 450 HP range. (The RamAir 4 400 was stated at 370 HP, but if you've ever had a chance to drive one, you'd know that was understated.)

The availability of today's aftermarket heads, cranks, rod and piston combinations has eclipsed the factory potential of the Poncho block. It's very hard to compare apples to apples today because of that.

[BOOOGHAR]

that 67 Safari is a 8 lug car ....... oooofffhhhuuu

[Deaf Bob]

Thump455.. What's the diff between 421 and 428?
Which the better motor?
Is the 421 off the same platform as the 389?

[AFFORDILLAC]

I'd love to have the odd colored one, but the four speed really sucks you in on the green one. Nice find.

[Monk]

Nice!!!!!!

[John Brewer]

Love the Tuna Boat classic resto's. Beautiful work from what I can see!

[antmnte]

They are both nice. Too bad you cant buy new ones.

[PatricksDad]

Holy crap!

Can I have both?

[Barry Donovan]

plum mist and original delco regulator..
that is another 50000 sun cycles without a burp
.

I'll go with the wide purple pontiac.


I bet it don't need a/c.