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  • Gas or Diesel ?

    I might trade cars sometime soon.
    Just curious.....I've never considered a Diesel engine.

    I only remember the ones from years ago....has the
    technology changed much on them?
    Thom

    "The object is to keep your balls on the table and knock everybody else's off..."

  • #2
    Forget everything you remember about the old engines. Totally different world with common rail injection, major developments in turbocharging technology, etc. The old engines (especially from the American companies) were lost sisters that set back people's thinking of diesels here for decades. In Europe almost 70% of stuff sold now has a diesel in it.
    That which you manifest is before you.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Brian Lohnes View Post
      Forget everything you remember about the old engines. Totally different world with common rail injection, major developments in turbocharging technology, etc. The old engines (especially from the American companies) were lost sisters that set back people's thinking of diesels here for decades. In Europe almost 70% of stuff sold now has a diesel in it.
      I guess I should just go and have my 83 melted down for scrap - if Brian - the lover of all things slow and unlovely hates it - what's the use of keeping it?

      poor thing, and I just got it painted, too


      might as well throw that other POS next to it away too

      let's see, why do I like my 6.2 "old school" diesel (the one that set back diesels in America 10 years)
      1) turbos make all the difference
      2) it gets better MPG than any other new diesel
      3) when zombies attack - you keep loving on that road brick you call a durustrokummins
      4) people keep trashing on them - which means they sell cheap, this one was basically free, the suburban before it was $300...

      So do forget everything you know about new diesels - stick with the old ones
      Doing it all wrong since 1966

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      • #4
        Vette is looking good
        Thom

        "The object is to keep your balls on the table and knock everybody else's off..."

        Comment


        • #5
          He mentioned buying a diesel car. My comment was directed at offerings like the 350ci diesel that was offered in Olds and Cadillacs in the 1980s. The one that spawned the class action law suit and stands as one of the biggest CFs in GMs history. Diesel Chevettes, diesel Tempos, and diesel Escorts were punchline cars. Efficient, sure. Smoke belching barges? Yessah!

          The 6.2 in your truck is fine and with a Banks sidewinder on it the thing probably has a little bounce in its step. It'll rumble along for decades long after the truck around it is gone.

          The 6.0L Ford debacle turned a lot of guys off to diesel engines. Anyone who bought a Ford from like 04-06 when they were failing in all respects will probably never go that way again. I had an 04 F250 and the thing spent more time in for warranty work than it did on the road.
          That which you manifest is before you.

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          • #6
            Sorry for a little high jack. I was looking at an exploded view of the new Vette motor with it's piston oilers and direct injection and thought how diesel like it was. I mean you could have one basic engine platform and have it run on gas or diesel depending on injectors and CR. Interesting!

            With the advent of fracking, I think you're going to see a lot more alternative fuel vehicles. By my place in PA there is one station that has natural gas refueling. The local propane company in their newsletter that they mail out, they just bought a new service van that runs on propane. They say it's about a $1.50 cheaper compared to gasoline per gallon. They also said USA had to import propane before fracking, now we export billions of gallons every year.
            Last edited by Huskinhano; March 31, 2013, 09:20 PM.
            Tom
            Overdrive is overrated


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            • #7
              the Germans have the diesel thing down really well. Jeep has one in the liberty (pass) and the Grand (big bucks) All the big 3 have good products now just over the top prices.
              used to be purplecobra, now just myself. I still drive a mustang!!!!!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Brian Lohnes View Post
                He mentioned buying a diesel car. My comment was directed at offerings like the 350ci diesel that was offered in Olds and Cadillacs in the 1980s. The one that spawned the class action law suit and stands as one of the biggest CFs in GMs history. Diesel Chevettes, diesel Tempos, and diesel Escorts were punchline cars. Efficient, sure. Smoke belching barges? Yessah!

                The 6.2 in your truck is fine and with a Banks sidewinder on it the thing probably has a little bounce in its step. It'll rumble along for decades long after the truck around it is gone.

                The 6.0L Ford debacle turned a lot of guys off to diesel engines. Anyone who bought a Ford from like 04-06 when they were failing in all respects will probably never go that way again. I had an 04 F250 and the thing spent more time in for warranty work than it did on the road.
                I was mostly just giving you grief - still, it's not easy to paint with a wide brush in the diesel arena - for the most part I agree with you. Had GM been smart in 82 with the 6.2L they would have partnered with Banks - had that happened, dodge would only be making cars now.... and heck, tomorrow Subaru is announcing that they are putting a diesel in their little WRX replacement....

                who knows, I've been watching carefully for a bmw diesel to come available from a X5 for my 325xi.... never know, that kind of project tends to pop up in my garage without too much warning. Especially since my pipeline of projects is really starting to narrow. And I'm still looking for a MB or Willys to put a small 4 cyl diesel in.

                That said, I'm not sure that diesels are the panacea they were 10 or 20 years ago. My Chevy truck gets 2-3x the fuel economy with a diesel as a gas motor'd truck did.... nowadays, doing the same comparison 25% better - maybe... heck a duramax might get 3 mpg better than a 6.0 gas powered truck?.... Compare the VW Jettas - the TDI gets 45, the gas powered car gets 38.... IMO that's not enough difference to make a up the difference in price.
                Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; March 31, 2013, 09:34 PM.
                Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                • #9
                  I pulled derby cars over the mountains.. Down freeways at 85 mph.. Redwood highway with a 50/50 2- car trailer.. With a 77 chev flatbed and a Ford 7.3 turbo diesel.. Diesel wins every time! Both are dualies.. Ford's a crew cab, chevy's a 12 foot flatbed..
                  Ford diesel loaded is almost like the flatbed partly loaded.. 5.7 vs 7.3 is a big difference..

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brian Lohnes View Post
                    He mentioned buying a diesel car. My comment was directed at offerings like the 350ci diesel that was offered in Olds and Cadillacs in the 1980s. The one that spawned the class action law suit and stands as one of the biggest CFs in GMs history. Diesel Chevettes, diesel Tempos, and diesel Escorts were punchline cars. Efficient, sure. Smoke belching barges? Yessah!

                    The 6.2 in your truck is fine and with a Banks sidewinder on it the thing probably has a little bounce in its step. It'll rumble along for decades long after the truck around it is gone.

                    The 6.0L Ford debacle turned a lot of guys off to diesel engines. Anyone who bought a Ford from like 04-06 when they were failing in all respects will probably never go that way again. I had an 04 F250 and the thing spent more time in for warranty work than it did on the road.
                    You are right. Americans turned their backs on diesels except in trucks. In Europe, they have spending the last 30 years improving the technology. They were paying three times the money for gas as we were, so fuel economy was paramount. Diesel has been proven to provide better mpg and torque over gas engines of the same size in cars of the same size and weight.
                    BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

                    Resident Instigator

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                    • #11
                      Monk.
                      even if you have no desire to actually buy one - do yourself a favor and go drive a TDI VW - just go in with an open mind and see how you like it.

                      You will be surprised for sure - the delight remains to be seen - I for one am very interested to hear your impression.

                      well over 40mpg and hundreds of miles more range than any gas vehicle on the market.

                      Hybrids are coming along - but there's more complexity and price hike to them than the diesels if long term ownership is your goal.

                      The GM passenger car converted diesels were horrific - really any non turbo diesel is a slug by today's standards - my 7.3 powerstroke couldn't keep up with a new 6.7 truck even with lots of modifications. The new benz diesels defy logic they are so quiet, but the car around them is so expensive it's hard to justify for most folks.

                      Please Monk - drive a TDI - even a used one from the last handful of years - and let us know what you think.
                      There's always something new to learn.

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                      • #12
                        Those TDI volkswagons crush anything on the market in mpg and nearly all in power and speed in their compact car market. The domestics are way behind the boat in this market that is ripe for the picken as the VW TDI's I've heard are usually in short supply on dealer lots. At least out west they are.
                        Escaped on a technicality.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by milner351 View Post
                          Monk.
                          even if you have no desire to actually buy one - do yourself a favor and go drive a TDI VW - just go in with an open mind and see how you like it.

                          You will be surprised for sure - the delight remains to be seen - I for one am very interested to hear your impression.

                          well over 40mpg and hundreds of miles more range than any gas vehicle on the market.

                          Hybrids are coming along - but there's more complexity and price hike to them than the diesels if long term ownership is your goal.

                          The GM passenger car converted diesels were horrific - really any non turbo diesel is a slug by today's standards - my 7.3 powerstroke couldn't keep up with a new 6.7 truck even with lots of modifications. The new benz diesels defy logic they are so quiet, but the car around them is so expensive it's hard to justify for most folks.

                          Please Monk - drive a TDI - even a used one from the last handful of years - and let us know what you think.
                          Yap my dad's got a '06 Jetta, his best is 53mpg.........

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                          • #14
                            Looks like I'll be looking a VW in the future.

                            Thanks for the input.
                            Thom

                            "The object is to keep your balls on the table and knock everybody else's off..."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Has anyone driven a bluetech benz diesel - I'd never choose to afford one but they sure look nice and are amazingly quiet.
                              There's always something new to learn.

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