Gas or Diesel ?

[Deaf Bob]

Oh man! Milner hit it square on the head!
Piss section in a swimming pool! Lol.. Perfect description!

[DanStokes]

With all this talk about Emissions, it seems that the EPA is going to approve a measure to allow the exemption of emission testing for Motorcycles here in Phoenix(Maricopa County)........ A lot of motorcycle riders/builders here are real happy about it.....

That will be your State environmental agency. EPA is not in charge of in-use testing programs. The Agency does, however, set clean air standards and makes suggestions/recommendations as to how to attain compliance. Most states simply put the recommendations in place as the local program as it's easier and cheaper than developing their own process and standards.

Dan

[STINEY]

You guys should also read up on "Tier 4" emmissions standards for Agricultural Equipment (and construction I believe).

Basically the air coming out has to be cleaner than the air going in.

So couple that with subsidies - - and we are basically paying farmers to drive big air-purifiers over their fields.

And even tougher standards are on the way. Tier 5 is spelled out, and there are more above that.

[SuperBuickGuy]

less diesel ...the better

I'm going to Portland tomorrow morning.... want to guess which vehicle I'm driving? I need a truck to haul stuff back, and both my H3 and my diesel can pull the same load (I've done it). It isn't the 5.3L H3 why would I pay for 16 mpg (maybe) when I can get 20 mpg for sure? And I don't have to clean oil out of the passenger compartment.

I can't figure out why anyone would buy a gas powered truck when a diesel is so much better in any metric... even with whale piss.

What bugs me the most is this - I get clean air and saving the children.... but if you're living, you're going to leave footprints. Getting so spun up on such tiny, sometimes even irrelevant problems does more damage than if you simply burned raw, crude oil. E.g. to get clean diesel, we heat the #2 diesel to 900 degrees, run it through a big still, then burn that in our trucks - and it's less efficient because it costs energy to heat crude to 900 degrees. Add to that cost, now we have to manufacture and ship whatever poor animal our chemistry determines byproduct to a rendering plant, who burns more energy, all which were raised by farmers who could have actually been feeding the world - but instead is making whale piss for our pickups.... yeah, that works out well.

And before I hear a snoot about conservatives or liberals- the measuring stick gets moved by BOTH sides; the losing side takes on the role of whining that the other side is going too far..... For those who don't remember Reagan, look him up and the charges against him by the liberals - the liberals should have copywrited what they said because it's now the conservatives who are saying the same blasted thing that was said 20 years ago.....

really, there is no hope - go out and do burnouts, it really is all we have left

[Deaf Bob]

Yep.. Don't sweat the small stuff..

Kinda like making batteries for 'lectric cars...
Which has more long term footprint..gas powered cars diesel, or electric...
I see it as cutting off your nose to spite your face..

[DanStokes]

You can't eliminate the footprint. The goal is to limit it. My take is that you reduce the footprint in your daily life (I mean, really, why not recycle?) and save the environmental excesses for the fun times, like running a racetrack. The small duration of a WOT run at 1200 HP (or whatever you can muster) has really no environmental impact. The Agency officials don't get this concept at all and that's where SANE comes in. Hopefully we can get lawmakers to see logic - the EPA will follow.

Dan

[milner351]

SO - MONK - HAVE YOU DRIVEN A TDI YET?

I just stumbled upon a 2009 popular mechanics where they tested an A3 TDI Audi wagon - I missed it completely - now I want one - the TDI wagon is the perfect commuter for many folks I believe.

SBG - we are brothers from another mother - but your Dad gave you way more shop skills - mine taught me baseball and golf - anyway - I want to know how you're getting a solid 20mpg from that brick of an 80's GM truck with a turbo 6.2 - how much boost - what gear ratio - what RPM and speed are you running on the highway? I must be loosing lots of energy through my transmission - even though it has a new converter maybe it's slipping elsewhere - I have 3.73 gears 265/75 -16 LRE long trail tires and a 4R100 - 7.3 powerstroke - with a cab height cap on the bed running ~1800rpm at ~66mph - I can get 19.5mpg - that's indicated and measured - but if I go 75mph and ~2200 - it's in the 17's. Of course - my truck weighs 7000lb!

[joebogey]

Just a thought that occurred to me and seems to be in the same vein, as I just saw that VW is coming out with a Jetta hybrid.

A coworker (who I carpool with) just picked up a Chevy volt, which is not a hybrid, it's an electric vehicle with a gas generator, a fill-up of 9 gallons and a full charge will get you 1k miles give or takes for conditions.

When will a company come out with an electric vehicle with a diesel powered generator to power the wheels. If a gas generator will knock down upper 30/lower 40 mpg what would a diesel generator be able to come up with?

[TheSilverBuick]

I've wondered likewise.

[DanStokes]

I thought VW was messing with a Diesel/Electric hybrid.

But don't even get me started on hybrids. A rolling environmental disaster - I've posted on this before.

Dan

[SpiderGearsMan]

volt is a hybrid

[joebogey]

volt is a hybrid

Only time the gas engine runs the wheels is if you've completely drained the battery (which would require you to override the system as it automatically starts charging at 30% battery level), and are doing over 70 mph. At all other time the gas engine charges the battery to drive the electric motor. Other hybrids switch between gas and electric based on demand.

Dan- I'll have to look at that, did not know someone was. And yes I agree I can drive my smoke belching 89 VW diesel for another 30 years and not have the environmental impact of one hybrid...

[milner351]

Only time the gas engine runs the wheels is if you've completely drained the battery (which would require you to override the system as it automatically starts charging at 30% battery level), and are doing over 70 mph. At all other time the gas engine charges the battery to drive the electric motor. Other hybrids switch between gas and electric based on demand.

Dan- I'll have to look at that, did not know someone was. And yes I agree I can drive my smoke belching 89 VW diesel for another 30 years and not have the environmental impact of one hybrid...

And yes I agree I can drive my smoke belching 89 VW diesel for another 30 years and not have the environmental impact of one hybrid...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ to the infinity

[Deaf Bob]

From ingridents to final polluting product, I have a hard time believing electric or hybrids are better than a well tuned engine...
I think an old car has a smaller foot print than a new car
My aunt worked for a battery manufacturer back in the late 50- early 60's. the cell seperators were wood.
How much is natural nowadays?
Yeah. Some stuff is better but not much. Miss the days of buying something once. Like hot water heater... Bought my house 30 years ago. Same heater for 25 years.. Already on my3rd !!

[Caveman Tony]

I looked at buying a Volt, then barfed into my own mouth when I saw the sticker price.

So.... I'm doing my part to clean up the NJ environment by driving my TDI like a complete Ma$$hole, still getting a minimum of 35mpg, smoking unfiltered Cuban cigars with the windows down, throwing my McDonald's trash and beer cans out the window, farting, and chucking Wal-mart bags into the countryside. And its working. I am making NJ cleaner.