General Motors plans to invest $691 million to expand operations in Mexico

[OldMachinist]

If the extreme environmentalists were really concerned about the planet they would demand that any manufactured product coming into our country would abide by all the environmental rules in place in our country. That would include all the factories that touched the product including all energy produced to make the product and all aspects of producing that energy. While we're at it lets include all production of oil, minerals and food products and any other natural resources.

Also all labor safety and hours regulations should be in place the same as here.

Lets put all countries in the global economy on equal footing and you would see a great deal of manufacturing return to this country.

It really seems like our govt hates this country and wants its citizens to have a lower standard of living. (Hope I don't get banned.)

[oldsman496]

Giving us a lower standard of living is an effective way of increasing corporate profits. seriously.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Detroit's a ghost town...

why do you think that is?

[OldMachinist]

Giving us a lower standard of living is an effective way of increasing corporate profits. seriously.

How does that compute when with a lower standard of living we buy less of what corporations produce?

[OldMachinist]

why do you think that is?

Look at who has controlled Detroit for the last 40 or 50 years?

[SuperBuickGuy]

In light of moving jobs outside the Country I found it interesting the story of the CEO being held in Beijing because the factory workers there are worried they won't get their pacakges when the company moves to India.

http://www.chron.com/technology/businessinsider/article/The-American-CEO-Held-Hostage-By-His-Employees-In-4625311.php

So to me the chinese were more than happy decades ago to take "our" jobs and work for peanuts but is it now coming full circle for them too? They actually take their CEO hostage because now their jobs are going to India? It will be only a matter of time before Indian workers want to be treated right too. Then where wil companys go for cheap labor and zero EPA regulations...

India and China both have a continuing problem - far more people than their land can support; the planet can support ~6 billion people with current technology, arable land, and infrastructure. There are 7 billion today, and the population forecast says 9 billion by 2050. The stuff we're seeing now, is just birthing pains - wait until it really hits in the next 15 or so years (presuming no huge, unforeseen disruption - then it'll happen sooner).

I'll stick by what I said before - with nice oceans between us and the Chinese and Indians; we only have to worry about those on our continent. The Europeans and Russians.... they have much to worry about - after all, they've already once been invaded by the Far East. Equating what's coming to a swarm of locusts would be a very good comparison for what's coming.

Environmental rules ALWAYS fall in the face of comfort... what doesn't fall is increased police states and larger wars

[JOES66FURY]

I agree with Scott on the UAW. In search of a comfortable life thru higher wages (who doesn't want that?), the UAW drove costs thru the roof on car manufacturers to the point that they had to go elsewhere. Otherwise, no one could afford a new car... In general, the move to outsourcing is a product of our own greed.

I have been saying this for years.

I think Mark is correct with the EPA and gov't regs being a big player in the demise of manufacturing in the USA but the UAW put the nail in the coffin.

[OldMachinist]

No doubt on the unions harm. This is why the foreign manufacturers built in right to work states and Boeing built its new plant in South Carolina.

[Orange65]

Having worked with numerous automotive companies including GM, I have never heard one either formally or informally, justify moving a plant on the grounds of environmental restrictions. Maybe they filtered what they had to say to me- I am just a machine designer/ project engineer. However, they have been very blunt that low costs from labor was a deciding point.

[OldMachinist]

My point is environmental and safety restrictions on foreign products would increase costs and make U.S. products more competitive.

You have heard the old saying "Whats good for the goose is good for the gander" and I think the playing field should be more level.

I certainly am not in favor of harming the environment and I don't think anyone is but there needs to be a balance. The newest rules for diesel engines will prove crippling to the transportation industry and seem overbearing when the last tier had trucks with rust showing in their exhaust stacks - no soot from emissions. When is it enough?

Also I am trying to show the phoniness of the "extreme" environmentalists when they ignore whats happening in countries like China where 2 new coal fired power plants come on line every week with zero emission controls.

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

Also I am trying to show the phoniness of the "extreme" environmentalists when they ignore whats happening in countries like China where 2 new coal fired power plants come on line every week with zero emission controls.

that's not in my backyard rule #1 in the greenies handbook

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

Having worked with numerous automotive companies including GM, I have never heard one either formally or informally, justify moving a plant on the grounds of environmental restrictions. Maybe they filtered what they had to say to me- I am just a machine designer/ project engineer. However, they have been very blunt that low costs from labor was a deciding point.

maybe so. but when it's time to do a major update to a plant, moving it. adds to the pie

[oldsman496]

How does that compute when with a lower standard of living we buy less of what corporations produce?

A lower standard of living means lower wages and benefits. If your income goes down, but you still have to drive to work, then the percentage of your budget going to 'neccesities' increases. I guess i feel that discretionary spending suffers, but you still gotta have a car and the lights turned on...I just don't feel that a drop in our wages is going to correspond to a drop in prices of goods.

unless the bottom falls out of the economy - and corporations are forced to lower prices or not be able to sell thier goods.....

If you get a pay cut, but the price of gas climbs, you still gotta buy the gas. You just can't afford the Snickers candy bar sitting there at the register anymore.

There's a 'tipping point' somewhere.....and if corporations are having slower sales, then they won't be giving you a raise or supplying health care.......

Ed - can ya tell i'm having trouble justifying my prior statement.....

[Mr4Speed]

I don't think it's as simple as the UAW pushing wages too high, but the deals they got to pay too many people to do nothing or very little-to force the manufacturers to tolerate poor productivity. When you start combining that with a business hostile environment in the form of eco regulations, taxes, healthcare costs ect. it all adds up.

The fact that Mercedes, BMW, VW, and Audi have recently built plants here in addition to all the Japanese manufacturers that have been here for a while and are still here says a lot about how much the UAW plays into the equation, because working at those foreign plants that are here are pretty good jobs.

[NewEnglandRaceFan]

I don't think it's as simple as the UAW pushing wages too high, but the deals they got to pay too many people to do nothing or very little-to force the manufacturers to tolerate poor productivity. When you start combining that with a business hostile environment in the form of eco regulations, taxes, healthcare costs ect. it all adds up.

The fact that Mercedes, BMW, VW, and Audi have recently built plants here in addition to all the Japanese manufacturers that have been here for a while and are still here says a lot about how much the UAW plays into the equation, because working at those foreign plants that are here are pretty good jobs.

it be nice if the government fed and state have g.m. etc the same tax deals the imports got to build a factory in that state.
everyone forgets that part. 5 years of zero taxes helps the bottom line big time. to bad mopar/ford/gm cant get deals like Toyota,kia,hyndi,m/b/bmw/Honda/etc