SOS. Help. For real.

[pdub]

Come on guys, let's do this. A Brother is in need. Who's in?

[pdub]

Bump.

[tedly]

Copying this from my Facebook because I'm exhausted and need to get moving, will check back in later guys:

The owner of the management company came by a few minutes ago and we finally had a face to face. After seeing the place, seeing that we haven't trashed it, haven't damaged it, are keeping it up, and all the steps and measures we have taken to alleviate the problem beyond the measures they have taken, there was a big difference. He still couldn't smell anything and had no reactions like we've been having, but he's open to moving us to another one of their properties. We're working the details out Monday. Kathy and I are staying at the shop tonight with the dogs, Her daughter is staying at my Moms, then tomorrow My brother and I are going to knock out all necessary repairs on Kathy's Jeep and she and Cheyenne are heading back to Memphis until we get things straightened out with the new place. Since we haven't been able to figure out what it was and have no evidence beyond our word that anything is happening we are still out all the money we've shelled out. But oh well.

[Chassisman]

If it's sewer gas I'd say a criter has made a nest in your vent pipe for the sewer. The vent pipes are located on the roof. Sometimes these get partially blocked by birds nests or squirrel nests....then the fumes vent into the house. I battled this once. Found rats had packed seat cushion stuffing in the vent.....

[yellomalibu]

If it's sewer gas I'd say a criter has made a nest in your vent pipe for the sewer. The vent pipes are located on the roof. Sometimes these get partially blocked by birds nests or squirrel nests....then the fumes vent into the house. I battled this once. Found rats had packed seat cushion stuffing in the vent.....

True, but the average person can smell sewer gasses. This seems like something a little less common.

[Deaf Bob]

The smell of sewer gas is...unlike any other.. Very smellable..
Whatever it is making them sick accumulates.. Builds up, making them hypersensitive..
Hopefully the next renters get just as sick! Mean? Not really

[tedly]

All people and four legged critters are ok today.

Sewer gas has 2 main gasses that are harmful, methane and hydrogen sulfide. Methane has a very particular smell, it's not what we have been smelling. Hydrogen sulfide is a by-product of the organic breakdown of sewage as well as a by-product of the combustion process in many instances. It usually has a sulfur smell, like rotten eggs. However during my research into this nightmare I have come across a small section of people that have described a smell like car exhaust that turned out to be hydrogen sulfide from sewer gas. After talking with my Dad - who has a PhD in chemistry - and describing the physical symptoms we were having he came to the conclusion we were dealing with some kind of sulfide, in all likelihood Hydrogen sulfide. Dad is also very knowledgeable about construction, it's how he put himself through most of his college. After describing what we had found in our own searches for the cause of the problem, he agreed we had multiple probable points of entry for this gas, both from the the chimney and through at least 2 dry sink traps. The chimney issues were addressed by myself (hole in the chimney big enough to fit 3 fingers into) and the landlord (sleeving the chimney to prevent down drafts, especially when the hot water heater was running and not the furnace. Furnace is forced air, hot water heater is not). After patching the hole in the chimney there was an immediate and very noticeable difference in the health and overall behavior of myself and Kathy. Like less than a day. But we kept getting the smell and fumes. We located 2 dry sink traps and filled them with water. we poured over 10 gallons of water and a fair amount of bleach down the floor drain in the basement over the course of 2 or 3 days. All joints in the exhaust for the furnace were sealed with foil tape and checked with soapy water sprayed on them (like you would for a leaky tire). The floor drain in the basement was plugged using a compression type test plug. Again fumes came back after a couple of days, but the smell had abated somewhat at first. This is when we evacuated as they could be smelled 10 feet from the house with the front door open eventually. I ended up going to the ER because of my reactions to them. Kathy didn't because she has no insurance. The thinking was we would find out what it was with me, then get her checked for the same thing. This is when the chimney was sleeved. After, same thing. A day or 2 of nothing but residual smells (to us) but no physical reactions. Then it came back. Kathy started having mild but noticeable trouble breathing, so we got out again. This is where we are now.

Fire department was out twice to test, the second time specifically for hydrogen sulfide. Didn't even register on their meter. the second time was earlier in the same day that Kathy had her most severe reaction. We appear to be dealing with multiple different issues, some of which were fixed and caused improvements in some areas, some of which we still haven't identified.

This is what we know so far: It is something that builds up in your system over time, how long I don't know but Cheyenne started having mild reactions within a couple of days and started noticing a strange smell yesterday. Kathy works from home so she spends most of her time there, and she was the first to notice and exhibit symptoms.

It is likely multiple overlapping issues.

It causes irritation of the throat and eyes (mild to moderate burning sensation), nausea, headaches, coughing, lightheadedness, feeling of fatigue, and probably other symptoms I'm not remembering right now.

It comes and goes in waves, periods or dormancy and activity, with the worst of the activity occurring during night time usually.

I'm sure there's more, but I have to go get Kathy's Jeep fixed and get them back to Memphis. I'll check back in later.

Thanks guys.

[Deaf Bob]

I really hope the next place is clean!
So are you moving into the same company's other property?
If so, hope it does not have the same problems..
And I really hope the girls do come back!

[tedly]

OK, so I guess it's time for an update. Still no official answers as to what we were dealing with. Best I can work out is 1. The hole in the chimney. 2. The plumbing system was all jacked up. The previous tenants apparently fried everything and dumped the oil down the sink drain, which clogged the pipes to hell and caused the backup right after we moved in. I'm guessing this had been a problem before we got there, and possibly why they moved out. The backup in the main sewer line probably ruptured it under the concrete, causing the gasses to seep out the ruptures. add in the dry traps we found and the exhaust from the leaky chimney... 3. There was almost certainly some type of mold.

Everything that was in the house reeks and makes me sick if I'm around it for too long. Anything with a fabric or porous surface has the crud in it. Everything that something from the house contacts for awhile has the crud. We've been cleaning and scrubbing everything repeatedly but some of the furniture is a lost cause I think. Whatever it is has even gotten into the computer hard drives and electronics and can't be gotten rid of. The fans kick on and it spews out the vents. Kathy works from home as a web designer and programmer. About 3 grand worth of equipment and 18 years worth of saved work, research, etc. is toast. They work, but she can't be near them while they're running. She's been barely keeping her business alive with borrowed computers until we could get her new equipment. Since she can barely work she's been stuck. It took me a month to be able to work 40 hours in a week, and another month before I could manage any overtime. Used every bit of sick time, tardies, and absences I had. Finally getting caught up on the mountain of bills and got enough to replace most of her equipment. I'm in the process of cleaning every thing that was in the house, and I mean EVERYTHING, to see what can be salvaged. Due to the brutal winter and the shop being old and far from well insulated, for awhile all I could do is huddle under blankets and ride it out.

The worst is over now, it's time to finish digging out and picking up the pieces. Kathy and I are still together even though we're in different parts of the country but we're hanging on by a thread. The stress and damage done might be too much to overcome but we're both stubborn as hell and not willing to give up yet. We're wanting to move somewhere warm and with a beach, just gotta finish cleaning up the mess first.

This has been an absolute nightmare and devastating on every level but something good may still come from it. My partner at the shop is moving in a few weeks and I'm going to try to build up some sidework to get in extra money while building some skills and trying some ideas I've had floating around for awhile. I'm living in a tiny apartment with a huge garage and can finally start using it again. It would be a damn waste if I didn't.

Thanks again for all the help, support, and well wishes guys. It has meant a lot. Now get out there and drive dammit.

[Deaf Bob]

Damnnn mann! I really hope it works out!

[LORENSWIFE]

Just a thought or two Tedly...
First, and don't think I am trying to be funny, I am a bit jealous that you can smell anything at all as I still cannot, due to the traumatic brain injury.

The ability to smell things is such a necessary sense for us as mammals, any interruption or change to it can effect us in ways that I would never have thought of, it has actually caused depression and suicide attempts in some people.

If someone where to ask either of you (separately) what it smells like what would be the FIRST thing that would come to either of your minds?

Some strange things can cause brain interpretation of smells to alter drastically from medications, small siezures, MS, Diabetes, pregnancy, even very complicated computer systems running alot...

One thought I have is that you two have been in contact with it for so long it is possible for your brain to re-orient and be able to magnify the offensive odor, it has something to do with neurological training. Being exposed to and focused on the same thing for quite awhile and concentrating on it a lot can cause your body to build and grow nerves that actually assist in the detection of the odor that you have been focusing on.

I know these are really not very helpful answers but I have learned a bit in my search to try and restore my completely gone sense of smell...

Have you tried the Febreeze on any of the cloth items in the house?