I don't get it

[milner351]

I hope my thumb heals and I don't get lead poisoning from the sliver...

Yea - I'm going to try looping the hoses (between faucet valve and faucet spout) with longer hoses tonight.
Also - the plastic drain pipe didn't go into the drain trim right - it was late, I was tired, and frustrated and it stripped and broke so I'm buying another one today after work.

Here's another weirdo thing about this faucet - o-ring seals under the faucet trim for both valves but not the spout? plumbers putty?
AND the spout nut / washer is not deburred or large enough to fit the typical hole size in the counter - so I will be looking for a big washer at Lowes too.

[Deaf Bob]

Plumber friend who also derbys has these neat square washers... Asked him where he got them... "from under the houses I work in". Whaaa? i can't crawl to save my life.. Was at Lowes and they are a buck a piece! He says there are lots of them just laying there.. Guess the guys make too much money to pick up dollars...

Is UL still around?
The wife and I were comparing stuff in the store.. Didn't notice any "UL" tags or emblems..

[Ron Ward]

I'm gonna ask what may be a stupid question....


Did you run the stock number for the Square D switch through Amazon to get pricing, or did you go through Grainger or McMaster Carr? (you may even check www.newark.com as they have KILLER pricing on electrical switches)

[Ron Ward]

Is UL still around?
The wife and I were comparing stuff in the store.. Didn't notice any "UL" tags or emblems..

UL is DEFINITELY still around. A lot our customers require a UL listing for the products we offer. UL isn't cheap, either....

[SuperBuickGuy]

while taking out '79-80 vintage kohler stuff and replacing it with no name who knows what.

Kohler (and pretty much every other plumbing manufacturer) is so automated that I don't see them as "made in the USA" unless they say "made in the USA by robots"....

and that's it.... buying Chinese stuff, which still has quality issues but has made grand improvements (remember when Japanese = crap?) - still, they won't buy a machine to replace a worker .... which is NOT what is true in the US. We opened our doors to China to prevent their people from starving to death and starting a war.

Yet now, made in the USA - what does that truly mean? do we do it to keep our neighbors employed or what - to one-up the Joneses by saying "look, my widget is better than your widget because it was built by robots in the US rather than people who are trying not to starve?"

[STINEY]

and that's it.... buying Chinese stuff, which still has quality issues but has made grand improvements (remember when Japanese = crap?) - still, they won't buy a machine to replace a worker .... which is NOT what is true in the US. We opened our doors to China to prevent their people from starving to death and starting a war.

I believe my ears still burn from all the negative comments about Japanese products I heard as a kid. Same story, different decade for sure.

I am curious on the opening doors to china to prevent starving & subsequent war deal - - do they, by and large, see events in the same light?

Not being antagonistic, just honestly curious? I wonder what they say about us, if we even come up in conversation.

[Monk]

I believe my ears still burn from all the negative comments about Japanese products I heard as a kid. Same story, different decade for sure.

I am curious on the opening doors to china to prevent starving & subsequent war deal - - do they, by and large, see events in the same light?

Not being antagonistic, just honestly curious? I wonder what they say about us, if we even come up in conversation.

We were told 70% of people in China want goods Made in USA

And speaking of their machinery........I've seen photos of plants over there
and you'd think they were in Europe.

[Barry Donovan]

so what's more useful, the firing squad or UL labs in promoting product safety?

iso standard.

16949 found 9001 was not good enough, and me? I am finding neither one is good enough.

it does get tricky. switches keep a patent worshipped like its biblical.

"they are all the same".

I just went through summit for a 22 dollar switch. Took the cover off and shook my head in disbelief. slapped it back together, shipped it out.

As it turns out, the 3 dollar one with alight bulb can be customed to be whatver I want, and becuase it has a weight in the throw, it has to be tougher. the summit version did not.

tricky stuff.

then, "they are all the same" is put to rest by buying a new alternator...it only looks the same as 1971. But oh, the iso standard kicked in the pants as cheaply as possible. Change the guts..stuff we don't see.


I'll stay confident with anything. The world can yell louder than ever today with the net binding it.

[milner351]

it's not uncommon for wealthy chinese folks to have a house built, furnish it, but not move in for several months because of the stench coming off all the new stuff makes living there unbearable. indoor air quality there is a major problem. we've had issues with some materials coming from there in our cars, inside air quality in new cars is something that's being studied and will likely be regulated at some point. We had really really stinky tires coming in from Turkey as spares for some cars - those interiors smelled worse than harbor freight in the tarp / tire aisle.

One thing for sure the grass is NOT greener in china - unless it's painted. Polution is a major problem for them - way worse most folks believe than it ever was here.

[moparmaniac07]

Regulations, certifications, etc., all added into the price. I'm sure there's more margin in the USA switch, but it really is that much cheaper to make stuff there. There is one part my company makes (made) that we can buy for cheaper than just the raw materials required to make it would cost us. No idea how that's possible unless China's getting some killer deals on scrap iron. Things made in America have a lot of costs added to the product without any additional value. Always a new regulation (financial, environmental, other) that takes months to figure out/re-write a procedure to make sure nobody violates it. Also, some (most? a lot? 2? I don't know) Chinese suppliers can be very unreliable with when they're supposed to get product to the customer. I know we've got a few people/trucks making sure our stuff gets to where it needs to be when it needs to be. Our parts are also warranted, so the shop floor employees throw away more that is necessary as scrap because it's better than letting a bad part go out and get installed and lose a customer over it. It doesn't seem China cares that much. I've got more than a few things that had a China label that I needed to modify to make work or fit right. I guess their tolerances are looser.

As far as automation, most machines are more consistent than people. I think part of the reason USA parts aren't as reliable as they once were is because of automation. Companies have to compete against third world labor prices, so they have to cut costs. With automation being as accurate as it is, well maybe this wall can be a little thinner since we don't have to worry about a welder burning through it saving $0.03, or we could push out 100 more parts a day assembling it this way and it will still hold up to the expected life.

[Loren]

I would say that about half of what I've bought in the way of parts and tools that were made in China in the last six months have turned out to be defective in some way. Do you think that is the way they make all things? No way, if they sold that crap to the home market they'd get it all back in their lap. In many cases these are probably factory rejects, packaged up into a container and sold to U.S. buyers across that broad Pacific (such as True Value where I can't seem to buy anything these days that works) cheap, they will never hear from it again and we here are just that kind of suckers.

[dieselgeek]

.... and to this, the Chinese are neither stupid nor immoral; they know that failing products don't sell, and they know that there is a quick path to the firing squad if they make parts that kill people... (these parts are also sold in China to Chinese people, so if they fail and kill - bad things happen as opposed to here where we sick our lawyers on you.... and I digress more, but if you gave lawyers guns, maybe that would solve some problems.... anyway) in short (pun intended), I'm not buying that there's a huge labor savings, or even a technology difference.

Dead nuts accurate /\

Where something is made doesn't affect its quality, at all. I've seen plenty of overseas parts that cause fewer warranty issues than domestic parts. The problems with parts that aren't any good is that the people selling them to the consumer have undercut quality control.

[squirrel]

Per capita income in China is about 1/10th what it is in the US.

That's why we can't afford to make stuff cheap...we expect to get paid well for what we do, and we need to get paid well for what we do, just to survive.

[oj]

I think your machine would take a contactor - like a big relay - and that is $150-200; a $20 drum switch, like the squareD switch on my small lathe, can handler smaller amounts of current and is mechanical.
In brief, it sounds like you are being quoted a $20 mechanical switch vs a $150 starter/contactor - both are probably made in China or some village in cambodia called squareD.

[SuperBuickGuy]

I would say that about half of what I've bought in the way of parts and tools that were made in China in the last six months have turned out to be defective in some way. Do you think that is the way they make all things? No way, if they sold that crap to the home market they'd get it all back in their lap. In many cases these are probably factory rejects, packaged up into a container and sold to U.S. buyers across that broad Pacific (such as True Value where I can't seem to buy anything these days that works) cheap, they will never hear from it again and we here are just that kind of suckers.

it's like anything else, it seems, there are companies out there that make crap in the US as well. For example, I bought a AC Delco alternator, that someone failed to connect the wires inside correctly...

I honestly don't see labor as the biggest price determiner - they have to be put together somehow; and when you can make 100 widgets an hour, whether it costs you $15.00 or $1.00 a hour - on a $100 part, it's really not that much.

To me, there can be two answers:
1) the regulations and insurance are 3x the cost of parts; or
2) China is flooding the market to put other manufacturers out of business

The point of my question was this - is there a physical difference between the parts? No one has said "I bought a Chinese one and it fell apart" - on another thread, a guy is using a Chinese reversing switch - and honestly from the pictures of the inside, it looked just like the US made one....

and to directly respond to your statement, Loren, I've been doing cases recently about importation from China; it's fascinating stuff, but there is one thing that isn't true - that the sellers here don't get reimbursed for parts; it's not universal, but any of the big guys have a clause which says that refunds are directly deducted from the next shipment.... on ebay, not so much, but True Value, quite likely they get their money back.... to the Chinese it's worse because they're there and they don't (changing again, but not there yet) have anyone here to verify that the parts are, in fact, defective and not simply operator error or abuse.