I don't get it

[38P]

I'm not a big import fan, but capital tends to move where it's use is most efficient.

Moreover,

88.5% of U.S. consumer spending is on items made in the United States. This is largely because services, which make up about two-thirds of spending, are mainly produced locally. The market share of foreign goods is highest in durables, which include cars and electronics. Two-thirds of U.S. durables consumption goes for goods labeled “Made in the USA,” while the other third goes for goods made abroad.

Chinese goods account for 2.7% of U.S. PCE, about one-quarter of the 11.5% foreign share. Chinese imported goods consist mainly of furniture and household equipment; other durables; and clothing and shoes. In the clothing and shoes category, 35.6% of U.S. consumer purchases in 2010 was of items with the “Made in China” label.

http://www.frbsf.org/economic-resear...made-in-china/ (a couple of years old, but the percentages probably aren't that much different).

Deficits, however, can be a problem (beyond the scope of this forum to discuss)

[Deaf Bob]

yeah, that ship has sailed....Sam Walton must be spinning in his grave. And I might wig out completely if I meet up with another pair of rubber pliers.

BEST EVER PLIERS? cheapo no name $2.00/ pair from the discount tool section in a cut rate fast grocery store..
One pair's handles bent perfectly, the other's still virgin.. Never nicked or broke! Had a couple others before I went back to Crescent..
I love my Snap-Ons! Have Craftsman and Matco's as well..

[STINEY]

Remember when walmart only sold built in the usa stuff? ugh.

One thing I've learned not to skimp on - pliers, drill bits, and pretty much anything you need to count on the hardened properties of (wire cutters especially)

yeah, that ship has sailed....Sam Walton must be spinning in his grave. And I might wig out completely if I meet up with another pair of rubber pliers.

[milner351]

Agree with SBG and Lorren - nothing worse than dealing with an "american company" just to find out they have taken advantage of some loophole to call their stuff "made in USA" while in fact it's a conglomeration of stuff from global suppliers that may have had some final assembly done here, or some such.... agravating.

Remember when walmart only sold built in the usa stuff? ugh.

One thing I've learned not to skimp on - pliers, drill bits, and pretty much anything you need to count on the hardened properties of (wire cutters especially)

[SuperBuickGuy]

You won't be able to tell without doing your own testing.

Some importers will try to sell parts that "failed" or fell out of spec for other manufacturers. You might have one of those, or you might have a quality part. Sucks but you get to be your own quality control on the low buck parts whether they came from here, or there.

What's worse is the "American Made" parts that aren't, that sell for top dollar, and so many consumers (especially rampant in the industry built around our hobby) fall for it - it's the newest trick being played on consumers I'm seeing.

This is a great discussion too.

my hope from this thread is to drill down and focus on which are good or bad based upon experience with the vendor - I absolutely loathe being the person who finds out the vendor isn't the piece of sliced cheese they claim to be.

[Loren]

I see in a Wilwood ad this month they are claiming that products are made in the U.S. I had heard that when they stopped using Los Angeles Die Casting and Royal E-Coat in Costa Mesa as vendors a while back, it was to save a small amount of money to go overseas...so I'm wondering if this is true, or what the deal is.

[Supersport350]

I've had the same frustrating thought processes haunt me on purchase decisions for several things.

Think about the shipping costs - you'd think that would give stuff made here a huge advantage.... but still the chinese stuff is cheaper.

I'm in the process of installing a no name faucet that I suspect came from china but there is no indication of where it was made in any of the (one piece) paper work. Once installed you'll have no idea it's not a "name brand" and the castings have a quality feel to them, but I have a sore spot in my thumb now due to a sizable brass sliver that came off one of the threads. Only time will tell if this was a mistake or not - but it will be a learning experience. $60 to my door sure beats $140 plus tax at the store for "the same thing" we'll see how it turns out.

Been there, done that. First kitchen faucet was a Pfister made in China, was around $100 i think. Repaired valves, o-rings, and spray hoses over about a 5-6 year period. Last failure of the diffuser, which switches water from the faucet to the sprayer, i decided to throw that piece of shit out. Full lifetime warranty covering free parts just wasn't worth it. Replaced it with a Delta Victorian model, made in USA with USA valves, and haven't had a single trouble 4 years or so. Paid a little under $400 i think. I do have another Delta, made here, but with Chinese valves. I haven't had any troubles with that one either. Once again proving, you get what you pay for, and Chinese quality has improved in many products.

[dieselgeek]

\
The point of my question was this - is there a physical difference between the parts? No one has said "I bought a Chinese one and it fell apart" - on another thread, a guy is using a Chinese reversing switch - and honestly from the pictures of the inside, it looked just like the US made one....

You won't be able to tell without doing your own testing.

Some importers will try to sell parts that "failed" or fell out of spec for other manufacturers. You might have one of those, or you might have a quality part. Sucks but you get to be your own quality control on the low buck parts whether they came from here, or there.

What's worse is the "American Made" parts that aren't, that sell for top dollar, and so many consumers (especially rampant in the industry built around our hobby) fall for it - it's the newest trick being played on consumers I'm seeing.

This is a great discussion too.

[squirrel]

As Scott points out repeatedly, industry in China can and will build whatever you want, to whatever quality level you specify. They are very capable.

Wasn't it Ford who figured out that raising wages helped him sell more cars, and make even more money? I wonder how that concept is doing over there?

[SuperBuickGuy]

It's not just the labor, it's the whole process, from materials to distribution. Everything in China is less expensive to do, because most of the people don't get paid much.

Japan was like that a few decades ago...then they "caught up" with us...

It's changing pretty quickly - 10 years ago, the proper way to dispose of industrial waste was to dump it in the river... now the quickest way to be tried and shot is to dump industrial waste in the river.

But, their regulations are lax(er) - but even so, the days where high-value labor was added to widget is long past.

The ones who make the big bucks are the ones who build things that can't be off-shored (like skyscrapers). And with automation, especially it's lowering costs, again, labor costs really aren't that much higher here.

it is interesting to me, though, on a side note (Joe reminded me of this in his search) - everyone wants to be an engineer, no one wants to be a machinist.... an issue that I've dealt with is finding qualified help in the US, the vast majority no longer is willing to sweat at work - which makes off-shoring even more likely....

but let's give an example. I have a Superwinch on my H3, that was designed in the US and manufactured in China. It's every bit as reliable as a Warn winch (and let's not go to the grief that I used to get because I bought a chinese winch)... Warn thinks their name has a halo around it, and their cost is at least double a quality Chinese winch; but honestly, I've broken 100% more warn winches than I have Chinese winches. Even Warn is seeing the writing on the wall as they're now selling a made-in-china winch....

[squirrel]

I honestly don't see labor as the biggest price determiner

It's not just the labor, it's the whole process, from materials to distribution. Everything in China is less expensive to do, because most of the people don't get paid much.

Japan was like that a few decades ago...then they "caught up" with us...

[SuperBuickGuy]

I would say that about half of what I've bought in the way of parts and tools that were made in China in the last six months have turned out to be defective in some way. Do you think that is the way they make all things? No way, if they sold that crap to the home market they'd get it all back in their lap. In many cases these are probably factory rejects, packaged up into a container and sold to U.S. buyers across that broad Pacific (such as True Value where I can't seem to buy anything these days that works) cheap, they will never hear from it again and we here are just that kind of suckers.

it's like anything else, it seems, there are companies out there that make crap in the US as well. For example, I bought a AC Delco alternator, that someone failed to connect the wires inside correctly...

I honestly don't see labor as the biggest price determiner - they have to be put together somehow; and when you can make 100 widgets an hour, whether it costs you $15.00 or $1.00 a hour - on a $100 part, it's really not that much.

To me, there can be two answers:
1) the regulations and insurance are 3x the cost of parts; or
2) China is flooding the market to put other manufacturers out of business

The point of my question was this - is there a physical difference between the parts? No one has said "I bought a Chinese one and it fell apart" - on another thread, a guy is using a Chinese reversing switch - and honestly from the pictures of the inside, it looked just like the US made one....

and to directly respond to your statement, Loren, I've been doing cases recently about importation from China; it's fascinating stuff, but there is one thing that isn't true - that the sellers here don't get reimbursed for parts; it's not universal, but any of the big guys have a clause which says that refunds are directly deducted from the next shipment.... on ebay, not so much, but True Value, quite likely they get their money back.... to the Chinese it's worse because they're there and they don't (changing again, but not there yet) have anyone here to verify that the parts are, in fact, defective and not simply operator error or abuse.

[oj]

I think your machine would take a contactor - like a big relay - and that is $150-200; a $20 drum switch, like the squareD switch on my small lathe, can handler smaller amounts of current and is mechanical.
In brief, it sounds like you are being quoted a $20 mechanical switch vs a $150 starter/contactor - both are probably made in China or some village in cambodia called squareD.

[squirrel]

Per capita income in China is about 1/10th what it is in the US.

That's why we can't afford to make stuff cheap...we expect to get paid well for what we do, and we need to get paid well for what we do, just to survive.

[dieselgeek]

.... and to this, the Chinese are neither stupid nor immoral; they know that failing products don't sell, and they know that there is a quick path to the firing squad if they make parts that kill people... (these parts are also sold in China to Chinese people, so if they fail and kill - bad things happen as opposed to here where we sick our lawyers on you.... and I digress more, but if you gave lawyers guns, maybe that would solve some problems.... anyway) in short (pun intended), I'm not buying that there's a huge labor savings, or even a technology difference.

Dead nuts accurate /\

Where something is made doesn't affect its quality, at all. I've seen plenty of overseas parts that cause fewer warranty issues than domestic parts. The problems with parts that aren't any good is that the people selling them to the consumer have undercut quality control.