An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

[BangShiftChad]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

I am referring to the overhead cam stuff. GM played with it back in the day with Pontiac and of course for did the SOHC motors, but in general, the import manufacturers whether from Europe or Asia, have a longer history of running OHC setups. I don't happen to be a fan, but I can appreciate some of the things they do, and the fact that they have experience with them. I don't think that they are somehow magical super trick way better than anything else end all cool engines however. But, the domestic manufacturers spent a lot of years working to manufacturer classes of cars that could compete with the little imports. And in doing so, they spent a lot of time and money trying to build comparable engines. I'm glad they didn't go all the way, or we may not have the LS motors or any other pushrod V8's.

[dieselgeek]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

I am referring to the overhead cam stuff. GM played with it back in the day with Pontiac and of course for did the SOHC motors, but in general, the import manufacturers whether from Europe or Asia, have a longer history of running OHC setups. I don't happen to be a fan, but I can appreciate some of the things they do, and the fact that they have experience with them. I don't think that they are somehow magical super trick way better than anything else end all cool engines however. But, the domestic manufacturers spent a lot of years working to manufacturer classes of cars that could compete with the little imports. And in doing so, they spent a lot of time and money trying to build comparable engines. I'm glad they didn't go all the way, or we may not have the LS motors or any other pushrod V8's.

I had a big long-winded post all ready to go, then just said "screw it" and deleted it because I've already pissed off enough friends here for being a little more vocal about both imports and domestics than is accepted practice in the gearhead community... ;)

But I saw this and wanted to back Chad up on the idea of pushrods. You definitely don't need DOHC's to make an efficient engine capable of big power. I do think the DOHC import heads let you support higher power on stock parts than the typical domestic... there's no such thing as Dart 2JZ heads for a toyota inline six, but it's not stopping them from making 1000hp at the wheels on pump fuels.

The Ford modular engine family has been trying to catch the LS series engines for more than a decade, and unless something's changed in the latest revisions - I don't think any of those engines (in stock form) match the brake specific economy at comparable displacements, of the pushrod-based LS engines.

[BangShiftChad]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

Scott agreed with me! ;D

Thanks dude.

[squirrel]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

GM scrambles and finally makes it to the top of an Economy list - I wonder how it compares if we start going backwards in time?

If you go back in time, you discover that the imports are smaller cars than the domestics. The reason that imports got better mileage for such a long time, is that they were designed primarily for their home markets where small cars were the rule, so they were not competing with big American cars. Now that they are finally making huge barges to compete with our huge barges, there really isn't much difference in mileage.

And the American compact cars were never made to sell in big numbers, they were made to get customers in the door so they could be sold a big, profitable barge.

[ImpalaSam]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.


Who knows where the numbers in the article came from but this is what I do know the '02 Cavalier that I drive every day has a 2.2 ecotec with a 5-speed gets and average 31 mixed highway/city driving and I check the mileage every week. I don't drive overly aggressive but I don't baby it all the time either. On a highway only trip fro Atlanta to Orlando a couple
of years ago I got 38.

[Woodward_Dreams]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

And show me how to buy a new car without airbags, antilock brakes, and as of 2012, one without a stability system.

Whoa... is this for real?

[Freiburger]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

Yes. NHTSA requires electronic stability on all cars sold here as of Oct 2011. Don't you realize that you shouldn't be in complete control of a dangerous automobile?

[Woodward_Dreams]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

Yes. NHTSA requires electronic stability on all cars sold here as of Oct 2011. Don't you realize that you shouldn't be in complete control of a dangerous automobile?

Why doesnt the government just F***ing drive it for me!

[TC]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

sweet TC, so GM scrambles and finally makes it to the top of an Economy list - I wonder how it compares if we start going backwards in time?

I don't know, but I can tell you that my 1977 Chevy truck with a 454 got 12-13 miles per gallon in the city. That's about the same as the Titan gets now, and my truck had a carburetor.

Also sure imports of the past got good mileage, but they didn't have any power either. I bet if they took these 250+hp 4 bangers of today and dropped their power to 150hp, they'd be getting crap loads of mileage out of them. But the problem is who wants to drive a gutless piece of crap.

[squirrel]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

just wait, that'll be here in a decade or two....

[V10Mercury]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

sweet TC, so GM scrambles and finally makes it to the top of an Economy list - I wonder how it compares if we start going backwards in time?

I don't know, but I can tell you that my 1977 Chevy truck with a 454 got 12-13 miles per gallon in the city. That's about the same as the Titan gets now, and my truck had a carburetor.

Also sure imports of the past got good mileage, but they didn't have any power either. I bet if they took these 250+hp 4 bangers of today and dropped their power to 150hp, they'd be getting crap loads of mileage out of them. But the problem is who wants to drive a gutless piece of crap.

I am not saying you are wrong about anything but when you have one of these 250+ HP 4 bangers they will usually still get great fuel mileage if they are tuned properly.
I had a 2.3l 4cyl turbo Mustang that ran 11.70 @ 115mph and got 30+mpg on the highway. If you stayed out of boost you couldnt get less than 26mpg anywhere in that car.

[AllenK]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

I got 15-16 mpg at 70 or so and a with lot of idling in my '64 C10 on the way to the Power Tour. Not bad for a 388! I do have a Richmond 6 speed and 3.08 gears,but I'm also running my buddy's 1000 cfm Stealth carb too. :D ;D The engine has CNC ported heads with 2.05/1.6 valves and an XE288hr Comp Cam. I was stunned when I filled up after that first trip. I know that carb is way too big BTW. He told me to run it until he needed it,and he hasn't called yet.

My wife's GTP got 33 mpg at 75 mph plus with the air blowing cold and fully loaded down with luggage on vacation this past year. I've gotten 29 mpg in my Formula in mixed driving.

As many of ya'll have said, the media has played a large role in this misconception.

[dieselgeek]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.



So what is it that motivates the Evil Media (convenient timing for it to be EVIL, eh?) and begat this long running, secret campaign to smear the truth that all American vehicles throughout all time, were always the most fuel efficient and amazing cars made anywhere?


someone please explain this for me.

???

[dieselgeek]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

just drink the damn coolaid already.

So just what is it makes American vehicles achieving decent mileage that make less than 1000 hp at the wheels on pump gas so bad?

very big grin.

Nothing makes the American cars bad! I want them to be the best!! but, from my own experience, up until maybe just the last 2-3 years. hardly any of the domestic cars compared favorably to their import counterparts when it comes to cost, reliability, service-ability, resale value, power potential/cost, and economy.

Where was the above web link when GM was putting the mighty Cavalier (pre-Ecotec) up against cars like Honda Civics?!?!? It all sounds awesome on a forum but good luck taking that Cavalier past 100,000 miles without a huge ton of mechanical BS. A lot of that has seemed to change, in just the past few years (well, at least power potential, not sure about service-ability yet), for the better. But it seems a bit far fetched to me to imply that all along there's been some widespread media conspiracy to bring down the reputation of these always-awesome domestic cars...

Maybe it's just me and that Contour with the pain-in-the-butt intake leaks, or that Cavalier I owned that burnt a ton of oil at 60,000 miles, or that wicked nice Jeep TJ that ate 3 trannies in 50K miles... or the Beretta my GF owned and the awesome coolant leaks / headgasket issues (she drove like a grandma and followed the maintenance to a tee) - compared to the 1992 Honda Civic I got her that lasted 190,000 miles before a dude with no insurance in a Cavalier t-boned her, totalling the car...

Nevermind the 06 GTO that spent more time with the "Check Engine" light on, that ate $300 "APPS sensors" - or the Cadillac DTS that had a ton of electrical gremlins...

[olbuddybob]

Re: An overview of mpg, domestic vs import. USA wins.

SSSSHHHHHHHHHH.........that's a secret ;D