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The Official Bailout Thread

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  • The Official Bailout Thread

    OK, we say no politics here, and this is close, but it's also about cars so let's talk here about pros and cons of the so-called automaker bailout.

    I'm curious to read opinions based on facts rather than rants. And as soon as the name-calling starts we'll shut it down.

    Discuss.

  • #2
    Re: The Official Bailout Thread

    Well of course I'm disgusted with the recent idea of closing Pontiac,saturn,ans Saab ( due to the first entry of course ).
    What confuses me is why is GMC Truck still here, can anyone name a buddy who is a die hard GMC "man" ,who wouldn't buy a Chevrolet truck. Maybe the cost isn't as much for GMC as opposed to the ones listed, but really are they still planning on releasing the new H3 truck. The whole thing stinks Pontiac is the only name left that still stands out.
    The cars they produce are clearly theirs and have been that way for at least a decade. I heard rumors of them going to Mainly rwd vehicles, it got me all excited, G8, Solstice.

    I feel it's a shame all the people who's jobs depend on these companies.
    Do you guys remember the old saturn commercials that were all about Saturn being like a new age VW for the people. Guess those days are gone, and though I am a Chevy guy first, please name a division other than the Vette that has benefitted from their purchase by GM. Seriously every company worth buying got bought and slowly but surely they've all been shut sown.

    It's too big to quite grasp, I say all you guys hold onto what ever rusty domestic "cool car" you have because soon i don't think any will be made.

    Guess i won't be buying a soltice in a few years now, they'll all be collectors.
    Hey DF how much do you think HRM would sell their Soltice for?
    CM

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Official Bailout Thread

      I'd like to hear Washington's justification for the fact that they can write HUGE checks to the banking industry without any drama (did anyone see if AIG and other execs arrived in private jets?)
      however, the big 3 come asking for 25B and they get sent away with homework and have to come back and justify.
      There's always something new to learn.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Official Bailout Thread

        For now I can't get past how the companies I love are needing this while the ones I don't care for (Japanese) don't. But then...I'm wondering what Japan and Korea have been doing for their own industries, such as the deal where in Japan it's illegal to drive a crappy car so you're practically required by law to buy new ones. That's an obvious example, but what about at other levels? Is it possible that a government NEEDS to be in the middle of the industry that provides the transportation for most in the country? I'd like to think not, but...

        I may be the only one here who thinks CAFE was a good idea, if not for that bit of parenting Detroit might not have had a single thing to compete with the imports this year when gas hit $4. Perhaps an even-harder-hitting standard might have the industry in a better position right now, instead of this build-what-you-wish-to-and-then-come-crying-to-daddy-for-money-when-it-all-flops situation we're in right now.

        I'll be interested to watch what's said here.

        btw just state your own facts and beliefs and don't get hung-up on mine.
        ...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Official Bailout Thread

          Right,
          I'd be curious to know how many of these banks involved in the buyout have had to completely close divisions of the banks, not offer to sell (who would buy) but just close.
          How many people are employed in the U.S. by these banks Vs. The big 3. yeah the Auto industry has been hit, but at least they provide a product, not just loans and hedge funds.
          Is it a coincidence that now the two biggest purchases of your life (HOME, AUTO), Two things that everyone strive for are being handled this way, just a shame. Meanwhile all the High School Musical crap flys off the shelf.

          Why is it wrong to quit importing all these cars here anyway, Importing being the emphasised word. I could care less about a 300hp. Hyundai. Leave em over there. At what point should we as a country start to worry about our in own instead of the Global Economy and Trade.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Official Bailout Thread

            Originally posted by CM325
            At what point should we as a country start to worry about our in own instead of the Global Economy and Trade.
            This is the point, I hope.
            ...

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Official Bailout Thread

              That's long been my view.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Official Bailout Thread

                Devil's advocate dropping by.

                How about the huge number of Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, etc that are produced in our own country by our own citizens. Tough to "close the gates" on them because, well, they're already here, literally.

                Brian
                That which you manifest is before you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Official Bailout Thread


                  One of the reasons GMC has been kept around is so that non-Chevy dealerships could have a truck line to sell. Maybe GM could streamline their franchise system so that all their dealers were simply GM dealers and could sell any product they have. That would help to make it so they only had one truck brand, but I wonder if that would really save them much money.

                  I think the best thing that Wagoner, Mulally, and Nardelli could do this week is to watch the old footage of Howard Hughes testifying before congress. They really need to stand up to them and defend themselves(or just stay home and send Bob Lutz by himself). That last debacle of a congressional hearing was a witch hunt. In every other developed country in the world industry and government work together to their mutual benefit.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Official Bailout Thread

                    The question has always been "where does the money go?" In the past, clearly it went offshore though it also paid workers here. We were becoming a servant nation, manufacturing stuff for profit that did not stay here. Now we are quickly morphing to not even doing the manufacturing. And with the nature of global economy, it's no longer clear what countries own what.

                    So the horse as left the barn, and it's really complicated to reel it back in. Does that mean we shouldn't?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Official Bailout Thread

                      Originally posted by Brian Lohnes
                      Devil's advocate dropping by.
                      How about the huge number of Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, etc that are produced in our own country by our own citizens. Tough to "close the gates" on them because, well, they're already here, literally.
                      Brian
                      DA#2 here - - - - got this in the email today and thought this might be the place to put it.
                      Not particularly my personal view but well worth the ponder, I think.
                      Subject: The Big Race

                      Sadly the point of this article is very near the mentality of most Corporate America Executives.

                      Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (GM) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

                      On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

                      The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

                      Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 8 people steering and 1 person rowing.

                      Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

                      They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 3 area steering

                      superintendents, and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

                      They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 1 person rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners, and free pens for the rower.. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes, and other equipment, extra
                      vacation days for practices and bonuses.

                      The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

                      Humiliated, the American management laid off the rower for poor performance, halted development of a new canoe, sold the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.
                      The End.

                      Sadly, Here's something else to think about:

                      GM has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

                      TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last
                      quarter's results: TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while GM racked up 9 billion in losses.

                      GM folks are still scratching their heads.

                      IF THIS WEREN'T TRUE, IT MIGHT BE FUNNY.

                      Postscript: GM, FORD, AND CHRYSLER CEOs recently flew to Washington to ask for a bailout...in
                      their private jets!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Official Bailout Thread

                        That one's got dust on it.

                        OK...back to BAILOUT.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Official Bailout Thread

                          Why is it wrong to quit importing all these cars here anyway, importing being the emphasised word.

                          Don't flame but the Camry is a Domestic.

                          Totally with you Brian, Don't know the resolve. Just the Frustration, I'm not totally defending them more the ideal for the solution. Even that said it's not like i could offer one.

                          I'm talking about the Hyundai's,Kia,Scion. I really don't care who makes it, I would throw Holden, Vauxhaul, any auto made out of the country. It seems wrong to try to tell what people what to buy, but lets be honest they'll buy what you sell. Honda Toyota Merc even BMW have done well by us ( employees ). But how much of an effect would it have for "Us" if we didn't import for say 2-3 yrs. I'd bet all the Foriegn entities wouldn't be kicking ur A$$'s then.

                          And I love BMW but in this situation i have to worry about our country, yes it would suck but whats the alternitive.
                          08 Aveo's and focus's for everyone. :'(

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Official Bailout Thread

                            Stop importing new Camaros?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Official Bailout Thread

                              08' Aveos are imported, rebadged Daewoos.

                              Brian
                              That which you manifest is before you.

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