revised: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California

[Aircooled]

After reading some text of the bailout bill, I think I finally understand why Nancy Pelosi has been pushing this so hard. I mean, this Congresswoman has been incredibly antagonistic toward the Big 3 for since the beginning of time. Why, all of a sudden, is she now trying so hard to save them? The conventional wisdom is that she is trying to save UAW jobs and and win points with big unions. I just haven't bought that though. She had to have another angle.

Now I see it. Any automaker that accepts federal loan money will be required to drop their lawsuits against individual states that have passed laws on emissions standards that are more extensive than the federal government's. This clearly refers to the automakers suing California for their plan to trump federal CAFE standards through more restrictive CO2 emission regulations.

Bottom line? California (CARB) will set automotive CO2 emission limits. The Big 3 will have to comply. Since CO2 limits are in fact fuel economy standards by a different name, California will have superceded Federal CAFE standards and effectively imposed their will on the nation.

or maybe I'm just too suspicious....

Revised 12/10/08
Opps, lawsuit provision dropped from bailout bill. Maybe I am too suspicious? see quote from cnn

Democrats dropped a provision in their previous draft of the bill that would have prohibited automakers from continuing their support of lawsuits against states that have drafted more stringent emission standards than current federal rules.

"We do not believe there was any chance the legislation would pass if that provision remained in," said White House Deputy Chief of Staff Joel Kaplan.

[KeithTurk]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

I'm betting on her having some VERY bright aids...

She's just not that smart...

K

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

I'm betting on her having some VERY bright aids...

She's just not that smart...

K

x2 Agreed.

[tiresmoke!]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

Glad I'm not the only one that was thinking this all along.

Things are gonna get very "interesting" over the next year or so....

[Eliteman76]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

This is the sort of stuff that kills me about our so-called "leaders".

I'm just sick of half these people thinking everyone {but themselves} should be rolling around in a prius.

[dieselgeek]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

After reading some text of the bailout bill, I think I finally understand why Nancy Pelosi has been pushing this so hard. I mean, this Congresswoman has been incredibly antagonistic toward the Big 3 for since the beginning of time. Why, all of a sudden, is she now trying so hard to save them? The conventional wisdom is that she is trying to save UAW jobs and and win points with big unions. I just haven't bought that though. She had to have another angle.

Now I see it. Any automaker that accepts federal loan money will be required to drop their lawsuits against individual states that have passed laws on emissions standards that are more extensive than the federal government's. This clearly refers to the automakers suing California for their plan to trump federal CAFE standards through more restrictive CO2 emission regulations.

Bottom line? California (CARB) will set automotive CO2 emission limits. The Big 3 will have to comply. Since CO2 limits are in fact fuel economy standards by a different name, California will have superceded Federal CAFE standards and effectively imposed their will on the nation.

or maybe I'm just too suspicious....

I am not a Pelosi fan. Her son works for the same company I do (so they say! never see him actually logged in to the network).

But I think the reason the Big 3 sue the individual states is because the states are starting to be like California has done for years; developing their own "regulations" and it's *impossible* for the Big Three to design separate emissions controls for Virgina cars versus Indiana - the R&D is BS.

For the longest time, the Big 3 have designed their emissions controls around CARb standards, because the Federal emissions laws have been identical to CARB, only they go into effect a few years after CARB. It's been accepted practice for the Big 3 (and Foreign manufacturers as well) to just go ahead and build their engines & emissions to meet CARB standards.

Now, some states are trying to define their own standards and it's out of hand for the manufacturers. I am not sure who to blame in that situation; some people believe that CARB is basically owned/run/bullied by "Big Oil" - I know from a chat with DF that this is not too far from fact... (e.g. the Crusher Camaro story) thus they are developing standards more like European emissions laws. Europe's laws are widely regarded as the "more green" and the Domestic laws are regarded (in the International community) as "Green so long as you're burning more fuel"

And there's some fact that the tuneup on European vehicles allows better economy & power; while the American (CARB) certified vehicles tend to lose power and consume more fuel.


I am not entirely sure what motivates Pelosi on this however. I don't follow her politics closely enough.

We need a Dan Stokes comment on this because he can school all of us on emissions legislation/history! And perhaps Milner because he works in that world a little bit too.

[oletrux4evr]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

Trust me, Pelosi doesn't do anything unless it benefits her in some way, either financially (as with the minimum wage increase), or politically.

[TC]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

Like it matters, here in Arizona a car that is 15 years old or older, can be registered as a collectors car and you don't have to do emissions. So if they want to make cars that have ridiculous emission standards, that's ok with me, as I don't plan on buying new cars anymore. I'm just going to buy cars that are 15 years or older register them as collector cars, pay like $30 for my registration, and not have to go through emissions. It just seems like the smarter thing to do. Hell even the insurance will be cheaper, but then I pay $170 every six months for insurance, so I'm not really complaining about that.

[dieselgeek]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

Trust me, Pelosi doesn't do anything unless it benefits her in some way, either financially (as with the minimum wage increase), or politically.

I trust you. Because you accurately defined what motivates *every* politician.

[Brad54]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

Pelosi also tried to tie giving money to ACORN for the bank bail out.

She wants a "car czar."

What the hell are you people in California thinking when you put this idiot in power?

I've often wondered what would happen if one or all of the Big Three suddenly grew a pair and said "You know what? You win. We will no longer be selling new vehicles in California." And then simply pulled out of California, with their parting shot being "we'll let YOU deal with all the R&D for getting new vehicles, now imported from other states, to pass your CARB tests."

-Brad

[horsewidower]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

Oh HELL NO!. You don't want any of the California crap that we have to put up with. You guys need to get your Congressional representatives to dump her butt.

Bob

[Caddyman]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

No comment.









See below.

[Monk]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

Pelosi also tried to tie giving money to ACORN for the bank bail out.
-Brad

Yeah, that was in the small print, as I understand it they could've
reveived 20% of profits made off of Uncle Sams investments.

You can always tell when a politician is lieing.......they're mouth is moving.

[DanStokes]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

OK, here's what I know about this deal.

For years, the EPA has been hogtied by Federal legislation that says individual States (or consortiums of States) can pass regulations that are MORE strict than Federal limits. So we have California and SEMCOG (if I remember the acronym correctly - a group of northeastern states) passing progressively stricter controls. The law exists as written because individual states have the right and obligation to take steps if their air doesn't meet minimum standards - air that you can walk on is not generally considered "OK". From my point of view, this is made even more confusing by the fact that the CARB is CONVINCED that they know way more about all this than anyone else, including the Feds. My limited experience with the NE guys is that they are more reasonable.

Here lies the trouble - as others have alluded - what standards do the manufacturers build to? While all cars can be made cleaner, there is a practical limit - that is, a point at which cars are no longer a significant part of the whole problem.

The auto companies have pulled some real shady stuff in years past when they had infinite $$, like disabling the mass transit systems in LA and Detroit, so they kind of shot their credibility in the foot. You and I know that was years ago and none of the people who did that kind of stuff are still on the scene, but legislative bodies have long memories. So when Detroit says "We can't build 'em any cleaner (or get any more mileage)", legislators just don't believe them - their credibility is shot.

So the Feds don't have the power to reign in the States, and the States don't trust automakers to work with them in a constructive way (unless the company name begins with "H", "T", or "SUB"). The only answer I can see is to take away the states' rights to set their own standards, but that's going to go over like a Baby Ruth in the punch bowl.

Sorry I don't have the magic answer - but I don't think Nancy Pelosi or any other current politician is to blame - this has been going on for YEARS!

Dan

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Nancy Pelosi's ulterior motives... AKA California to control CAFE standards.

- air that you can walk on is not generally considered "OK".

I for one don't trust air I can't see :P