My rant

[SuperBuickGuy]

I like the LSx 454, in fact - I am trying to figure out how to buy said motor because it is so flipping cool. But there's my problem, whatever happened to the day of this conversation "well, I started with a 215 alum Buick motor, got a 300 crank, ground down the crank, bored the block, bolted on the 300 heads (the aluminum ones), made a 1/2" transmission adapter so I could use the new 3 speed switch-pitch dynaflow...." to which the rest of the bench racers would give appropriate oohs and ahhs to the amount of work and sheer genius of the back yard mechanic who combined such hard-to-fit parts into such a small, light package. Now, the manufacturers make things that in any measure is better then what a backyard mechanic can build

[Freiburger]

Re: My rant

You could build a 454 LSX at home...you'd just pay more.

[squirrel]

Re: My rant

I bought an LS-7 454 back when they were kind of cheap, about $2700 for the long block.

(yeah, I know you guys are talking about late model junk!)

[fahrenschnell]

Re: My rant

I hear you StoneShrink....The LSX is one bad Mamajama.....I still dig a BBC stroker more though.

BTW....Why Stoneshrink?

Seth

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: My rant

It has nothing to do with cars - My significant other's last name is Stone... I'll let you figure the rest ;D

I'm not ranting about the great product they make, it just seems that ingenuity has all but died in the hot-rodding field. Seriously, the motor is 2000 hp capable and Dave, no disrespect, but I bet the LSx 454 is less dollars to build then the one Nelson Supercars built for the F-Bomb. I get my enjoyment in this sport because of the guys (and gals) who come up with a clever new way, or by taking what was existing and making it do far more then anyone imagined (again, the F-Bomb is a good illustration of that). Once the manufacturers made it... it's nothing more then who can afford the bigger payment.

Again, maybe it's just me getting old and just seems I'm one step from saying "back when I was a kid we made our motors out of wood, AND WE LIKED IT!!!"

[Freiburger]

Re: My rant

How can I feel dissed? It's not any kind of apples/apples comparo. You're comparing a 620hp naturally aspirated LSX crate engine that is not even priced yet to a twin-turbo Gen I motor.

If you're saying that my long block cost more than the LS454 crate engine will, then, hmm, I doubt that. It might be close. The LSX 454 is stout, but doesn't have a billet crank or rods and the pistons might be hyper.

Did I miss your point?

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: My rant

From an engineering standpoint, the SBC 400 that your motor is based on (and yes, I know there's nothing the same) had maybe 200 hp when stock (on a really good day) - and Nelson (among others) have developed the block to 1600 hp which is what 8 times? more then stock - and well beyond anything that GM engineers dreamed of doing... that is the essence of hot rodding to me; average joes taking something and making it into something special. The LSx block - and given GM's validating of their designs - makes your effort seem, well, factory stock. No one gives a second thought about a 700 hp motor; now 1600 will seem as common as 700 does now (I'm trying to describe an idea; not diss those who build the 700 hp motors).
Don't get me wrong this is the renessiance of horse power; but I think the hobby/sport loses its soul when the manufacturers build what took the average joe decades to do. To me the fun of the sport is the bench racing, the getting the parts/and resources to build, the building, then the racing knowing that I built it... now, to get the same result - drive to your local GM dealer and buy the motor.... to me it seems souless. "I bought a crate motor" vs. "I offset ground the crank, used Olds heads on the Buick block...." I know which conversation is more interesting to me.... thus my rant - I wish for a simpler time when the manufacturers built the raw material and we made them into our cars.

[Mr4Speed]

Re: My rant

Interesting that this is the same discussion that was going on 40 some odd years ago when the new cars off the dealer's lots started going faster than the home built 30's-40's coupes and roadsters of the time.

[Monk]

Re: My rant

Yeah I know what you mean.......when I built my 427 couple of years back I was all into
a crate 454 but I wanted the experience of the build.
Going by the shop during the process, seeing it take shape
Watching the thing come alive on the dyno was way cool.

[BigBlockMopar]

Re: My rant

"I bought a crate motor" vs. "I offset ground the crank, used Olds heads on the Buick block...." I know which conversation is more interesting to me.... thus my rant - I wish for a simpler time when the manufacturers built the raw material and we made them into our cars.

You should put those cookiecutter chevy-engines aside and consider getting into hotrodding Early Hemi engines. Or any other non-mainstream engine. ;)
I've already sank more money into the rebuild of my 392 Hemi than any other engine I have, and the Hemi still needs lots of work to get running.

[ImpalaSam]

Re: My rant


Just because the factories/aftermarket are selling crate engines does not mean you have to buy it. Yeah, sure that is one way to make the horsepower but there are a hundred other ways and you are only limited by your imagination and or budget. If you take time to surf the internet there is an amazing amount of stuff going on with turbo motors that people build out of stock engines making amazing power. I for one enjoy reading about their engineering way more than the latest crate engine that makes the same power. On the plus side the more the hobby is saturated with aftermarket parts the cheaper the stock pieces become.

[Loren]

Re: My rant

There is enough available at an entusiast's fingertips (literally) to keep them busy for years.

Including the 'ol 300-crank-in-the-215 trick...you can still do it if you can find the parts. Seems to me the new crate stuff in the way of motors just spawns a whole new creativity, with packaging and electronics. Times are changing and hot rodding along with it but you can still do what you wish including build 'em the old way as well as the new. In fact I think there is a bigger following for "traditional" builds now than there was 20 years ago. Kids half my age know what a "nailhead" is.

[BBR]

Re: My rant

I say build your own. It makes getting done so much sweeter.

[Matt Cramer]

Re: My rant

With the availability of numerous combinations readily available, building a one-off is less compelling. There is enough available at an entusiast's fingertips (literally) to keep them busy for years. At the same time, are we are losing our abilities to see beyond what's available in the big box?

I think that's the biggest factor, at least with stroker / factory internal mix & match sort of things. These days it's often cheaper to just order a mass produced stroker crank compared to the custom machine work needed to make something fit. Though I have been thinking that if I grenade my slant six, that I might try using Toyota pistons in it. Then again, these days custom forgings aren't that expensive...

[dieselgeek]

Re: My rant

dude, skip the notion that cubic inches are the best thing known to man. There IS a replacement, and it's an improvement, it' called Positive Manifold Pressure.

You can take a junkyard small inch LS engine, not touch the internals, and make 800 *real* horsepower (not magazine stuff) and have it last for hundreds of trips to the dragstrip. You can support it with all kinds of crafty, found-in-the-junkyard parts and the sky is the limit on power.

Although we all want to see the GMPPs of the world thrive, your notion that backyard ingenuity is dead - is 100% wrong. There's never been a better time to do amazing things with a junkyard motor. Just try to ignore all the "Supercar" bullshit that gets crammed down your throat - most of them are un-driven junk that disappear in a year or two.

Make a new post if you want suggestions on junkyard-ready combos that haul ass. Many of us here have actually done that sort of thing, and it is a lot of fun!

-scott