Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Resurection Phoenix (Or the Rattle Can)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Well, the drivers side front brake has been grabby since I got the car. I just figured it was rusty dusty drums causing things to grab and stick. Well, no... not exactly. The problem is that there is .020" play AT the bearing, which translates into a hell of a lot more than that at the perimeter of the drum.

    Now I have a parts car and I think "well this aint so bad, swap the spindles off the parts car in." Well #### me running, the parts car did't have it's origonal brakes! The spindles won't interchange, I'll have to swap the entire drum setup off the parts car in. This is annoying, however, that car for what ever reason had the kind of rare 11"x3" drums! I think the ball joints and tie rod ends will mate up and work ok. Just need to order fist fulls of springs and other bullshit parts used only to go slower. blah... I hate spending money to go slower.

    Anyway, enjoy the photo of one totally fux0r3d spindle and the Rattlecan hanging out with UV307. (UV307 is the ultravan from Jay's Ultravan Adventure story ran here on bangshift a few years ago.)

    Comment


    • #32
      Bummer.

      Isn't there any reasonably inexpensive way to get discs up front like from some early 70's full size Mopar or something?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by hauen View Post
        Bummer.

        Isn't there any reasonably inexpensive way to get discs up front like from some early 70's full size Mopar or something?
        Well yes and no. See you can't just put the disc setup on. Sure I can rob the spindles off some B-body with disc or the units off an asphen or diplomat taxi or something and that all works, but then you need the proportioning valve and the master cylinder. Well the mastercylinder won't work with my brake assembly if it's not manual disc. Then any manual disc setup requires a hell of a lot of foot pressure so you really want boosted brakes with disc (drums are self energizing and require much less force to actuate compared to disc). So I don't just need the spindles off a car with disc, I need every thing off a car with disc, including the brake peddle assembly, and replace all of the brake lines because nothing is going to line up now that not only will the brakes be proportion valved it'll now be dual circuit (the brakes on the car are single circuit). It's more time, money and effort than it's really worth because the simple fact is, disc brakes just don't work all that much better. They offer more braking capacity because of superior cooling, but no more stopping force. Either system is more than capable of locking all four tires. Now add in the fact that I'm driving around with stupid damn moon discs on the wheels. No brakes are going to cool very well with those things in place!

        Now, there are some conversions that claim to work with the drum spindles, and they bolt on, and generate stopping force, but asside from that don't really work. The spindles on mopars are setup in such a way that braking force causes the suspension to rise. This "anti-dive" characteristic of mopars has always been one of the high points of these cars. Putting disc on the drum spindles defeats this. Factory mopar disc spindles are different from drum spindles for a reason!

        I've got the very nice 11x3" drums that will work far better than all but the best 4 piston or 6 piston boosted disc setups, I can rebuild them entirely, re-using only the backing plate for 92$, both axles! (rockauto does have deals after all sometimes!)

        Comment


        • #34
          On intake manifolds, IIRC, the 331,392 hemi intake bolts right on the poly motor. The poly head was a cheaper to manufacture head used to replace the hemi head on the hemi block. 392's had a taller deck than the 331 but Chrysler lowered the intake ports on the 392. This way Chrysler wouldn't have to invest in a new intake casting and use the existing 331 intake.

          On my 66 Mustang I just installed manual discs. Just limit the MS piston to no more than 1". You could relocate the pushrod on the brake peddle for a little more leverage. Here's a disc kit for 57-61 Mopars. https://scarebird.com/index.php?rout...&product_id=54 As far as anti dive, that has more to do with the angle of the UCA, not with spindles. The braking forces from the spindle are transferred to the UCA. The leading edge of the UCA is located higher up than the trailing edge which pushes the UCA down for anti dive

          As far as front and rear proportioning I had a single circuit. I split it,used a cheap adjustable valve and a home made bracket. You can do away with a residual check vavle, even with the rear drums, you'll just have a little reaction time





          I made an adjustable pushrod for about $1. I used a threaded rod coupling

          Last edited by Huskinhano; September 20, 2015, 08:28 PM.
          Tom
          Overdrive is overrated


          Comment


          • #35
            Huskinhano, the adapter kit won't work for me anyway as the 57-61 style spinde I have is ruined on the drivers side. Now the set of spindles I do have, no idea what year they are, probably 1962? It still has the lower ball joint going directly into the spindle rather than the ball joint built into the steering arm. (link arm?) In any case I THINK the spindles I have will work, and I'll have 11x3" drums and I really think that's every bit as good as disks until I start looking into multipiston wilwood setups, which I can't afford. even if I could afford them I don't have the time. This car has to be road ready in 3 weekends. that's all the time I have. I couldn't even get disk spindles in that time.

            Comment


            • #36
              That's right, I forgot the spindle was trashed. I'm on your side about the drums. Those are pretty big, Petty used them doing 200 mph along with a single circuit master cylinder. On my Mustang. had my drums working pretty well.I never had any problems, heck I could take my hands off the wheel at 50 mph and it would stop dead straight. Years ago Indy cars use to drill the drums with pretty good success.

              Here's some interesting info.





              Oh BTW, cool car. I like!
              Tom
              Overdrive is overrated


              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Huskinhano View Post
                That's right, I forgot the spindle was trashed. I'm on your side about the drums. Those are pretty big, Petty used them doing 200 mph along with a single circuit master cylinder. On my Mustang. had my drums working pretty well.I never had any problems, heck I could take my hands off the wheel at 50 mph and it would stop dead straight. Years ago Indy cars use to drill the drums with pretty good success.

                Here's some interesting info.





                Oh BTW, cool car. I like!
                I hadn't even considered how much more discs weigh. I knew they weighed more but I didn't realize that much more. I think the car only just deals with the unsprung weight as it is. Honestly it feels rather underdampened. That said despite feeling so, running through a grass field and 15mph seems well within the limits of the suspension, even in it's lowered state. (only lowered because the rear springs are sagging from age btw!)

                I may consider drilling mine. I work as a machinist profesionally so that's well within my skill set to lay out a hole pattern and pop some holes in some cast iron.

                Honestly I've NEVER owned a car with disc. I have discs on my bicycle... not really impressed with those. But anyway, if 10x2.5 brakes will haul a '64 dodge polara down from 120 and through the hills of brown county indiana no problem, then the 11x3 drums on my considerably lighter phoenix should muster the mountainous terrain of the pacific north west.

                I also hear people say disc are esier to work on ... and I don't see it at all! If you have the spring tools, drums are way faster to change. just let the peddle get kind of low to the floor just before you change them and then they pull right apart!

                I'm kind of hoping the back has large drums as well. I haven't been able to get them apart. However I do know the car has a later c-body axle under it. It would actually be some act of increadible fate if I ended up with 11" drums front and rear, 11x3 in front and 11x2.5 in the back preferably. Then I end up with a complete C-body braking system under the car!

                Comment


                • #38
                  stinks about that spindle.... if you got some bar stock could you make yourself a new one if you go off the dimensions of the non trashed one? I wonder if it would be expensive to have one cut on a CNC.... if you have access to one? would the bigger drums work on the stock spindles?

                  Im just throwing stones really. sadly never got to own a classic mopar.... yet. I love their crazy styling, but the salt up here eats them for breakfast....
                  Hellinor- 2005 Mustang GT-Bolt ons, in need of a turbo

                  War Wagon- 1966 Bel Air Wagon-355 Crate motor, 700r4, flies pretty good for a brick...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Shelty View Post
                    stinks about that spindle.... if you got some bar stock could you make yourself a new one if you go off the dimensions of the non trashed one? I wonder if it would be expensive to have one cut on a CNC.... if you have access to one? would the bigger drums work on the stock spindles?

                    Im just throwing stones really. sadly never got to own a classic mopar.... yet. I love their crazy styling, but the salt up here eats them for breakfast....

                    wouldn't do any good. Mopar spindles are one piece units. The spindle is forged along with the entire upper and lower ball joint ears and brake backing plate mounting holes.

                    Also... why cnc a part that simple? If you want one single part, done quickly, deadly accurate and right the first time, manual is superior. (well it is if I'm running it anyway.) Something like that could be knocked out by a good manual guy in the time it takes to draw the part for cnc. That said I sure wouldn't mind having some 4130 chromo spindles.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X