Plastic Fantastic tew

[Monster]

I know what I would do - trade it in for a few more gold chains and a handful of Tommy Bahama short socks.

They have short socks ?

[Loren]

yep, new mounts i put in for him. its physics-- just like a full
cage is stiffer than a 4pt bar, a floor/firewall/windshield posts
and door jambs just arent as stiff as if you tie it together with
the rear header and t-top center bar to windshield.

however, as i always say-- i know what *I* would do, but its
your car, your money. up to you how you want to do it....

It was just a thought. Of-course the coupe T-bar would help lots but I've had full-on hardtop cars with cowl shake too that I'm sure they didn't let them out of the factory with. Loose door hinge-pin bushings would be a next thing to look at.

[SuperBuickGuy]

They have short socks ?

I think you could answer this question by simply looking in the mirror.... the only number-matching that happens here is the one to check whether or not the part is stolen.

[SuperBuickGuy]

It was just a thought. Of-course the coupe T-bar would help lots but I've had full-on hardtop cars with cowl shake too that I'm sure they didn't let them out of the factory with. Loose door hinge-pin bushings would be a next thing to look at.

you know this but this fits within the conversation.... most C3s, which are race cars, started as convertibles. Not just that but the issue is the flexing frame and top or not, it doesn't matter for strength because, as Loren points out, that little bar running to the targa top does nothing for torsional stiffness.

1968 Owens-Corning C3

[Loren]

NTITEB (That means NotThatI'mTheExpertBut A photo that to me shows that coupe or convertible, doors are part of a structural "path" of the C3 body; opening and closing wear alone cannot account for how pounded-to-pieces these hinge bushings from my '72 are. The triangle of the upper and lower hinge on the door post, and the latch at rear, is likely part of what prevents cowl shake and all points need to be snug when the door shuts. I.E., my car even though a coupe would probably shake if I just stuck these back in without repair.

[SuperBuickGuy]

jack the car up behind the front wheel on the frame then open the door... there is twist there but my point was following yours - that the little T bar provides nothing in way of strength to the chassis.

[Loren]

Well it's gotta provide --a little-- but I know what you're meaning.

I've been hanging my coupe body (sans front clip) by the corners at the upper windshield posts (and at rear window corners) and without the T-bar I don't think I'd do that on a convertible, but talking about ultimate strength where stuff bends, and flexibility within the material springback where stuff shakes, are indeed two different things.

[fatguyzinc]

never mind. i was gonna do some "mansplaining" but aint gonna
make a difference either way.

[SuperBuickGuy]

never mind. i was gonna do some "mansplaining" but aint gonna
make a difference either way.

you're welcome to try, but since I build and race these, you might find me a bit hard to convince...

[SuperBuickGuy]

In today's news, Corvettes work in the snow

I bet I drove a whole 50 feet without slipping, sliding or running over children

Luigi, though, doesn't want to take chances

[fatguyzinc]

you're welcome to try, but since I build and race these, you might find me a bit hard to convince...

yeah.... me too.

ok, not throwing shade here ( you constantly amaze me
with the stuff you do ) so please keep that in mind.....

just looking at the VERY rudimentary pics below, which are my attempt
at an ultra realistic and detailed C3 tub for the 'vert and birdcage for a t-top,
lets try and figure out which one has more strength, torsional or otherwise.

i know which 'box' will flex more--the 3 sided one. its simple physics.
for the doubters out there, just go build both out of any scrap (bed frames even,
or 1x1 box, all thread, whatever you want...) and pick up 1 corner then
do as kc and the sunshine band says and shake shake shake.

now do the same to the one with the "t-top" and rear halo. i know which one
*IM* betting on to flex more.

and yes ive done it, thats how i convinced leon to do a cage in his ragtop
454/4spd-- after new body mounts, reglassing firewall, door hinges...--
because he was convinced "that little bitty center bar aint doing sh@t".

we emulated the shape of the t-top with twin 1-5/8" tubing for the center bar,
the difference was night and day--although im 100% certain it was more
because we 'closed the box' with what basically was a 6pt cage.

but as always its your car, your money.....

[SuperBuickGuy]

not enough to make any difference at all. Further, the body mounts are in the wrong spot to give any strength. Keep firmly in mind that GM build these in fiberglass and in no way relied upon the body as part of the suspension - funny thing about fiberglass, you make it too stiff and it cracks all over the place. Or, simply let the guy who designed it convince you - he said that the body was only there to keep the rain off (Duntov). Or refer to the GM race book and look up what body mods you need to make to stiffen the frame (none).

That little rod does nothing at all - if it did then my windshield would still be crack free.

Nice box, though.

[SuperBuickGuy]

clever solution to a problem

they remove the springs from the lights - which means the headlights can flop up and down, but if you jam the slots with bolts... no jiggle, no flop

and they go up

[fatguyzinc]

.................Nice box, though.

i bet you say that to all the girls....

[SuperBuickGuy]

i bet you say that to all the girls....

I do, I do