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  • SuperBuickGuy
    replied
    not enough to make any difference at all. Further, the body mounts are in the wrong spot to give any strength. Keep firmly in mind that GM build these in fiberglass and in no way relied upon the body as part of the suspension - funny thing about fiberglass, you make it too stiff and it cracks all over the place. Or, simply let the guy who designed it convince you - he said that the body was only there to keep the rain off (Duntov). Or refer to the GM race book and look up what body mods you need to make to stiffen the frame (none).

    That little rod does nothing at all - if it did then my windshield would still be crack free.

    Nice box, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • fatguyzinc
    replied
    Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post

    you're welcome to try, but since I build and race these, you might find me a bit hard to convince...


    yeah.... me too.

    ok, not throwing shade here ( you constantly amaze me
    with the stuff you do ) so please keep that in mind.....

    just looking at the VERY rudimentary pics below, which are my attempt
    at an ultra realistic and detailed C3 tub for the 'vert and birdcage for a t-top,
    lets try and figure out which one has more strength, torsional or otherwise.

    i know which 'box' will flex more--the 3 sided one. its simple physics.
    for the doubters out there, just go build both out of any scrap (bed frames even,
    or 1x1 box, all thread, whatever you want...) and pick up 1 corner then
    do as kc and the sunshine band says and shake shake shake.

    now do the same to the one with the "t-top" and rear halo. i know which one
    *IM* betting on to flex more.

    and yes ive done it, thats how i convinced leon to do a cage in his ragtop
    454/4spd-- after new body mounts, reglassing firewall, door hinges...--
    because he was convinced "that little bitty center bar aint doing [email protected]".

    we emulated the shape of the t-top with twin 1-5/8" tubing for the center bar,
    the difference was night and day--although im 100% certain it was more
    because we 'closed the box' with what basically was a 6pt cage.

    but as always its your car, your money.....



    Click image for larger version  Name:	c3birdcage.jpg Views:	0 Size:	28.5 KB ID:	1311200


    Last edited by fatguyzinc; December 26, 2021, 10:55 PM.

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  • SuperBuickGuy
    replied
    In today's news, Corvettes work in the snow

    I bet I drove a whole 50 feet without slipping, sliding or running over children

    Luigi, though, doesn't want to take chances

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  • SuperBuickGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by fatguyzinc View Post
    never mind. i was gonna do some "mansplaining" but aint gonna
    make a difference either way.



    you're welcome to try, but since I build and race these, you might find me a bit hard to convince...

    Leave a comment:


  • fatguyzinc
    replied
    never mind. i was gonna do some "mansplaining" but aint gonna
    make a difference either way.




    Last edited by fatguyzinc; December 22, 2021, 10:52 PM.

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  • Loren
    replied
    Well it's gotta provide --a little-- but I know what you're meaning.

    I've been hanging my coupe body (sans front clip) by the corners at the upper windshield posts (and at rear window corners) and without the T-bar I don't think I'd do that on a convertible, but talking about ultimate strength where stuff bends, and flexibility within the material springback where stuff shakes, are indeed two different things.
    Last edited by Loren; December 22, 2021, 01:36 PM.

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  • SuperBuickGuy
    replied
    jack the car up behind the front wheel on the frame then open the door... there is twist there but my point was following yours - that the little T bar provides nothing in way of strength to the chassis.

    Leave a comment:


  • Loren
    replied
    NTITEB (That means NotThatI'mTheExpertBut A photo that to me shows that coupe or convertible, doors are part of a structural "path" of the C3 body; opening and closing wear alone cannot account for how pounded-to-pieces these hinge bushings from my '72 are. The triangle of the upper and lower hinge on the door post, and the latch at rear, is likely part of what prevents cowl shake and all points need to be snug when the door shuts. I.E., my car even though a coupe would probably shake if I just stuck these back in without repair.

    Click image for larger version

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ID:	1311022

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  • SuperBuickGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by Loren View Post

    It was just a thought. Of-course the coupe T-bar would help lots but I've had full-on hardtop cars with cowl shake too that I'm sure they didn't let them out of the factory with. Loose door hinge-pin bushings would be a next thing to look at.
    you know this but this fits within the conversation.... most C3s, which are race cars, started as convertibles. Not just that but the issue is the flexing frame and top or not, it doesn't matter for strength because, as Loren points out, that little bar running to the targa top does nothing for torsional stiffness.

    1968 Owens-Corning C3



    Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; December 22, 2021, 08:44 AM.

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  • SuperBuickGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by Monster View Post

    They have short socks ?
    I think you could answer this question by simply looking in the mirror.... the only number-matching that happens here is the one to check whether or not the part is stolen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Loren
    replied
    Originally posted by fatguyzinc View Post

    yep, new mounts i put in for him. its physics-- just like a full
    cage is stiffer than a 4pt bar, a floor/firewall/windshield posts
    and door jambs just arent as stiff as if you tie it together with
    the rear header and t-top center bar to windshield.

    however, as i always say-- i know what *I* would do, but its
    your car, your money. up to you how you want to do it....

    It was just a thought. Of-course the coupe T-bar would help lots but I've had full-on hardtop cars with cowl shake too that I'm sure they didn't let them out of the factory with. Loose door hinge-pin bushings would be a next thing to look at.

    Leave a comment:


  • Monster
    replied
    Originally posted by cstmwgn View Post
    I know what I would do - trade it in for a few more gold chains and a handful of Tommy Bahama short socks.
    They have short socks ?

    Leave a comment:


  • cstmwgn
    replied
    Originally posted by fatguyzinc View Post
    ''' i know what *I* would do, but itsyour car, your money. up to you how you want to do it....
    I know what I would do - trade it in for a few more gold chains and a handful of Tommy Bahama short socks.

    Leave a comment:


  • fatguyzinc
    replied
    Originally posted by Loren View Post
    Is that it?

    There's two frame mounts each side in the cowl area to look at if there's shaking. It's all sheet metal under the 'glass through there, windshield, door posts, rockers.
    yep, new mounts i put in for him. its physics-- just like a full
    cage is stiffer than a 4pt bar, a floor/firewall/windshield posts
    and door jambs just arent as stiff as if you tie it together with
    the rear header and t-top center bar to windshield.

    however, as i always say-- i know what *I* would do, but its
    your car, your money. up to you how you want to do it....

    Leave a comment:


  • SuperBuickGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by 65RHDEER View Post
    I know you're at the shortest day of the year... I'm waiting patiently for the report on how the TKX drives
    not sure the sun came up today... I've driven it, it is nice - like driving a gated manual.... very precise. Not sure I like the ability to adjust pressure off center - it has springs that return it, in neutral to the spot between 3rd and 4th because it makes reverse a pain to find (below 5th but you have to put a bit of pressure to get onto that gate side (or 1st/2nd). Outside of that, it feels very positive in both gear selection and holding power in those gears.

    Leave a comment:

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