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Buinicorn the 1964 Skylark wagon sleeper

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  • #46
    So here's the plan (CTX and anyone else feel free to weigh in).

    Re-ring the motor and do whatever necessary inside (which could be new pistons).
    Have the pistons coated with heat-resistant coating
    Port and polish the heads
    Move the turbo off the intake manifold and weld the adapter to the collector on the passenger side (which also would probably delete the a/c pump)
    Run lines for an intercooler
    Use the turbo I mistakenly bought for the 455 - and really, you might convince me to get a different turbo, but it won't be an easy task because it just needs to work. The current turbo is bad.
    replace the injectors to 60 lbs
    Use either my Holley or MS3x computer to run this.... probably the MS3x because it's the same computer I'm going to use on the 430 build for the 50 Buick and learning it will only make the other motor better.

    Simply rebuild the transmission and perhaps put a 2300-3000 rpm stall converter in it to match the 4.10 rear gears.

    Doing it all wrong since 1966

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    • #47
      Currently the motor is filled with Kroil to loosen up the cylinder/piston/rings. I think the valve train is stuck but won't know until later.... most likely I'll fill the block with diesel to loosen things up before I pull this completely apart.
      Doing it all wrong since 1966

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      • #48
        Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post

        Santa Claus calls Dan Stokes old? dang, that's cold - even for him.
        Older than ME!

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        • #49
          I'd say you've got a pretty good plan there SBG. I'm more worried about the trans than anything but they've lasted behind the Turbo 3.8's for years on end so it shouldn't be an issue. Have you considered a 700R4 or do you think the 200 would be good enough for the power levels you're looking to achieve? Other than that I say go for it.

          Bill

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          • #50
            This isn't a TH200, it's a 200R4 - totally different animal and one that's been hotrodding since it came out. For a long while, it was more popular then the 700r4 because it's stronger and it allows bolting to either Chevy or BOP patterns... but it was such a limited production, that eventually the 700r4 won purely because there were more of them..
            Doing it all wrong since 1966

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            • #51
              yeah and the 700 got a better aftermarket as a result stupid trans being in every thing

              i always liked the 200-4r better my self mainly because of my love of BOP engines (mainly olds)
              Originally posted by Remy-Z;n1167534
              Congratulations, man. You've just inherited the "Patron Saint of Automotive Lost Causes" from me. No question.

              75Grand AM 455:Pissed off GrandMA, 68 Volkswagen Type1 "beetle":it will run some year

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post
                So here's the plan (CTX and anyone else feel free to weigh in).

                Re-ring the motor and do whatever necessary inside (which could be new pistons).
                Have the pistons coated with heat-resistant coating
                Port and polish the heads
                Move the turbo off the intake manifold and weld the adapter to the collector on the passenger side (which also would probably delete the a/c pump)
                Run lines for an intercooler
                Use the turbo I mistakenly bought for the 455 - and really, you might convince me to get a different turbo, but it won't be an easy task because it just needs to work. The current turbo is bad.
                replace the injectors to 60 lbs
                Use either my Holley or MS3x computer to run this.... probably the MS3x because it's the same computer I'm going to use on the 430 build for the 50 Buick and learning it will only make the other motor better.

                Simply rebuild the transmission and perhaps put a 2300-3000 rpm stall converter in it to match the 4.10 rear gears.
                Here's my thoughts and I'm going to preface this with you can go two ways with this depending on what your overall intent is with the car.

                Plan 1: Use what you have here as a foundation. This is mainly if the basics of the motor aren't junk or you want something simpler to deal with. Above all check www.turbobuick.com for second hand stuff and even recipes for builds. www.gnttype.org is very dated but has a ton of good info as well..
                Absolutely go through the motor and give it a decent refresh; i.e. new rings and bearings, bottlebrush the oil galleries and coolant passages, replace the freeze plugs, etc. When you want to step it up, unless you are avoiding rebalancing the rotating assembly, get a set of aftermarket Diamond or JE forged pistons. The stockers are heavy and durable but very old school. Get a set of Champion CNC ported heads or there are a few other folks with good heads, Champions are just extremely repeatable and a solid value. If you are going to move the turbo from the stock "hot air" setup, you might as well go full 86-87 "intercooled" intake, stockers aren't too expensive (or restricting) and Champion offers CNC ported units to match their (and most other) ported iron heads. The "hot air" intake isn't very good and will leave you with a ton of compromises. Going "intercooled" on the intake will also let you get away from the throttle mounted to the inlet of the turbo which means you HAVE to run a specific type of seal (carbon something or other) on the turbo to keep it from pulling oil past the seal on closed throttle. A very big restriction going with other turbos. I've not played in the aftermarket EFI game on these engines but I know the MS community is strong for it based on DieselGeek's testimony on them doing the early DIS work and one of the most prolific experimenters in the Turbo6 world Bruce Plecan (RIP good friend) was getting into MS1 before he died. I successfully have adapted an L67 FWD ECM to run my LC2 ("intercooled") based 4.1 motor. Lastly, these motors do not like to rev very high, most people even with heavy cars like a 90's B-body wagon tend to go for the 3.42's or maybe 3.73's at the highest on the rear gears. 4.10's will virtually guarantee you shift into 4th in the quarter and TH200-4Rís arenít setup to survive doing that long term from what Iíve heard (I run a 4L80E).

                Plan 2: Going with a different foundation. This is probably higher power capacity but definitely more work.
                Put a L67 long block in it and dig up a 4rd Gen F-body L36 intake and a workable oil pan (canít remember what works) to convert it to RWD. This will give you a much more rev tolerant engine with a strong short block that will take more power in the long run. There are a number of folks who have built this combo over on www.turbobuick.com and other than the mounts, oil pan, and dealing with a 4L60E itís pretty simple. I think one of them is even running an MS3 setup on his. A stock L67 is pretty durable, most of the problems with the cars with them were the weak 4T65Eís vs. the engine but running lean they will pinch rings and chip pistons. Stock replacement pistons are cheap and even coated frequently. Aftermarket support for the L67 is still fairly strong with aftermarket pistons off the shelf, P&P heads still around, and a decent selection of cams. The L67 is also lighter than the classic 3.8L. They do make adapter plates to run Chevy trans behind the Metric60 patterned L67 and F-bodies came with basically a fox body V8 world class T-5 in a GM case if you want a stick. Overall they are a better engine than the 3.8L, much like the Gen III (i.e. LS1) is an evolution of the Gen I/II SBC they take the basic core but vastly update it with durability and performance improvements. The L67 really is the LS1 of the Buick V6 line; same bore and stroke but shorter deck height, slipper pistons, roller cams, on center block geometry, symmetric ports, etc.

                Get that motor you have unstuck and see if itís worth building (if the block is still standard bore and not a 20 bolt oil pan, I might be interested if itís usable).
                Central TEXAS Sleeper
                USAF Physicist

                ROA# 9790

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                • #53
                  good information. thank you... one thing, though, I'm not changing the hard parts I already have unless they are completely knackered...
                  Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; June 6, 2017, 01:53 PM.
                  Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                  • #54
                    I'm a dope... Should've been more specific.. it was late at night when I made that post.... My apologies...

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                    • #55
                      no worries, it's actually kind of funny how few know about the 200r4. The guy I bought this from didn't realize it either - and he was pretty car savvy, his flavor was the similar vintage Pontiac version of the G-body.
                      Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                      • #56
                        200r4 is behind lots of big ponied turbo'd veesixers. Like 700 ishy
                        The lone 250 I ever saw got boogered before the derby started and changed trannys in the pits
                        Learned that they are 2 completely different monsters.only positive was the 250's torque converter supposedly made more stall..

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                        • #57
                          Had an 84 Cutlass Supreme with the 3.8 2bbl and for some strange reason I thought it had a 700R in it but I came to find out that it had the 200R behind it. Unfortunately I couldn't do anything with the car because the gas tank rotted out and it went to the junkyard. Sadly it was at my parents place and it had sat in the back yard for some time and I didn't have a way to rescue it beforehand.

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                          • #58
                            Educational article

                            http://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp-...mission-build/
                            Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                            • #59
                              i am strongly considering a 200r for the grand am

                              just found out he thm400 is full of water form sitting with no dipstick and cooling lines on it
                              Originally posted by Remy-Z;n1167534
                              Congratulations, man. You've just inherited the "Patron Saint of Automotive Lost Causes" from me. No question.

                              75Grand AM 455:Pissed off GrandMA, 68 Volkswagen Type1 "beetle":it will run some year

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                A person I had the misfortune of knowing had a 200r4 behind a supercharged 383 SBC, not sure how it went as he went to prison and the car disappeared.
                                Another couple of guys I know run them behind 400ish cube Pontiacs, and another guy has one in his SBC powered Holden ute, which runs 10s on the bottle.
                                Only issue is, not even transmission experts know about them here, we never got them, only the TH700 and the 4L60E and later.

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