1967 Firebird Drag week car?

[BBR]

You've probably see this (Actually, I know you have), but 8:1 hydraulic roller cammed Chinese headed 496" BBC, 3000# car. 5.50's in the 1/8th. That's mid 8's in the full 1/4. Leaves at 3800, shifts at 5600.

https://www.theturboforums.com/threads/ebay-gt45-turbos-on-nova.385334/

With my turbo project, my thought process has been to use a large engine with a little boost instead of a little motor with bigger boost.

[Gateclyve Photographic]

you could probably do the same to a 5.3, and save 300 lbs or so.

It would take more boost and octane. It would be less reliable. It would look like @$$.

BBC is going to have much more visual impact than a belly-button LESS . . . .

Do whatever. IDK But BBR's got the right idea.

[squirrel]

yeah, but it's going in a pontiac, so who cares how it looks? it won't be a Poncho, no matter what you do. Even if you put those BBCP heads on it (big block chevy pontiac)

Big cubes can be more expensive, or less expensive, depending on how exactly you do it. Stock bottom end turbo LS motors have trouble running mid 8d reliably, but they're ok in the nines, from what I've seen guys doing on DW.

[fatguyzinc]

ok, the big vs small engine debate is easy to understand for me--
built to THE SAME LEVEL, using same quality parts and same
specs, the bigger engine will ALWAYS make more power AND
do it more reliably.

consider this. im 6'2", 375lbs, i regularly pick up bare 350-455 blocks,
th400 transmissions, 12 bolt rear axles, etc by hand by myself and
move em around no problem. a guy thats 5'7" can do it too--but not
as easily, and more chance of him getting hurt.

still dont believe it? ok, look at 'crumple zones' vs big old iron pig
vehicles. crash a prius into a 73 caddy, guess who fares better.

then theres simple math---build a 1hp/cubic inch motor. or a
2hp/cubic inch motor.or a 3hp/cubic inch motor.... and guess what- the bigger
motor will make more power and usually be more reliable because
you dont have to lean on it so hard to make that level of power.

yes, the LS motors are incredible. yes they weigh less. no they wont make
more power reliably than a 454,496,502 etc when built the same with same
quality parts and same specs.and theres easily 40+ yearsof recipes for the
bbc to make 400,500,600,700,800hp+, a turbo or other adder will make it
that much easier and that much crazier.........

but then again id put a smallblock (and have!) into a lot of cars like vega, opel gt,
capri, etc where fitting a big motor is too much cost or too much re-engineering.
there aint nothing wrong with a healthy sbc or an LS motor either.
i just suscribe to the theory below....

[Saz]

So I have rolled the idea of a pontiac around, but for what I want to do they are really pricey. The 400 that is currently in the car is a 1977 557 casting, which has the "lightened" main webbing etc. Not a good start to making power. I'd pull it and sell it intake to oil pan. I have already received the brow bashing from the Pontiac purists- some of which have been just shy of death threats. The car isnt original as far as engine, trans and rear end sonic don't feel bad with the BBC.

I have toyed with the idea of a N/A 632 as well, just to simplify the entire tuning process. 800ish hp and tons of bottom end torque should get the car there if I can get it to hook while keeping it light. Would be super fun to drive on the street as well. Later on if I still have the bug to throw some boost at it, i can.

I have some work to do before hand, my pre-bent cage will he here today, but my TIG died on Friday and is on it's way to a lincoln repair facility...

[squirrel]

wow, just how big is your engine budget?

[SuperBuickGuy]

I'll never get over how some people think that your car is theirs to build.

You're building your car, if it turns into the monkey-mobile, so be it. It's your car, as long as it floats your boat - it's all good. We can always dig up more steel and build another to replace it.

About motors - while it's not running yet, I have the same amount money in my 700-900 hp (depending on boost level) 455 Buick as would cost for an LS at the same power level and quality. Cheap hp is easy on a LS motor, but cheap hp doesn't reliably last. If you need reliability, (at least in my experience) it all costs the same and it's all in the $15k-$20k price tag..... no matter the block.

[Saz]

wow, just how big is your engine budget?

Not really a set number, but I told my wife I would have the entire car done for under 40k, including the price of the car.

[squirrel]

similar to the Plymouth I built last year. I spent about half on the motor. Blown hemis are not cheap. If I was building a GM, I would have budgeted about half as much for the motor.

[fatguyzinc]

.... Cheap hp is easy on a LS motor, but cheap hp doesn't reliably last.
If you need reliability, (at least in my experience) it all costs the same
and it's all in the $15k-$20k price tag.....no matter the block.

this, right here.
the gospel truth.

[Saz]

similar to the Plymouth I built last year. I spent about half on the motor. Blown hemis are not cheap. If I was building a GM, I would have budgeted about half as much for the motor.

Blown Hemi? Yeah, that just sounds expensive.

[Saz]

BBC. No replacement for displacement. There have been plenty of "miracle" LS engines blow up on Drag Week. Don't be another statistic.

More cubes means less boost and more reliability. More cubes means better spool with less parts-killing "bang bang" Have fun.

Car Craft got an almost nothing BBC to almost the number you;d need with a heavy street Firebird. See https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...uild-part-iii/

When Lutz, Larsen, Schroeder, Bailey etc show up with an LSX, I'll rethink it. But if you've got the budget, there's no reason not to go B-I-G.

As for building an aftermarket block "Pontiac" write to Big Chief at Midwest Street Cars, 7025 S Council Rd, Oklahoma City, OK 73169 about how many stacks you'll need to bring for a Butler-built turbo bullet. https://butlerperformance.com/

I've been out of the drag racing scene for at least 15 years. Last car was a 70 gto, 516" bbc and a healthy dose of nitrous. I like cubic inches. Build it mild, and they last. I know enough about them to he comfortable.

[Saz]

Cheap hp is easy on a LS motor, but cheap hp doesn't reliably last. If you need reliability, (at least in my experience) it all costs the same and it's all in the $15k-$20k price tag..... no matter the block.

Nail on the head. I want it reliable. Everyone that talks about making 10,000 hp for twelve dollars, is running junkyard LS or BBC engines with junkyard or china turbos. How reliable is that 454 with cast pistons, rods and crank pushing a 3600lb car into the 9's? The LS is probably more capable of surviving straight out of the junkyard, but you must lean on that 325 inches a bit harder, right? And yes, the point has been made that an engine swap is about 2 days of work. That's great, but I have another bike build in the works, starting a new job, just moved back to Colorado etc... In my mind, I don't want to worry about the potential ticking time bomb under the hood. I am also pretty set on running pump gas, both on the track and street. Truth be told, I am intrigued by the 632 from Blueprint engines. 800+ hp with a warranty, run on the dyno with the Holley EFI system I want as well?

I am not bashing either method at all. I am running a total basket case engine in one of my current bikes (and have many times in the past), so far it has been great. I also don't lean on it too hard.

[squirrel]

I know enough about them to he comfortable.

that's probably the most important thing

[Saz]

that's probably the most important thing

I'm still pretty new to this area, and I wouldn't know where to go for tuning (who is reputable etc). Learning how to tune a turbo car right off the bat, in a brand new car (to me) seems like a disaster waiting to happen the more I think about it.