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1985 Fiero build

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  • What a day yesterday... you know what they say about a 1 hour project being one broken bolt from 12 hours of hatred... I got the front end apart, and as I was putting it back together, one of the crossmember bolt wasn't quite snugging up to the frame... I knew not to, but I put ape strength into it, and it broke... DOH! spent a few hours trying to weld a nut to it and get it out, and kept breaking them back off... after 3-4 tries with the welder, I gave up, drilled the remains out, and helicoiled the hole... after that, I was able to continue, but by the time I got the driver's side spring installed, I was exhausted...

    Came out this afternoon, got the passenger's side spring in, the steering rack, all the ball joints and bushings tight, the hubs and brakes on, and a few other odds and ends. including the spindles.




    Tomorrow's to-do list:

    Reinstall driver's side coolant tube, I had to remove it to install the spacers.

    Install front crossmember braces

    install the steering shaft on the rack.

    Install new inner/outer tierods.

    level the car front to back.


    align the car as best as I can in the garage.




    This is a tease...


    "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

    1985 Pontiac Fiero, 3.5 V6 turbo, 5 speed
    1988 Suburban, 350 TBI 700r4, 4x4
    2006 2500 HD 6.0 4x4

    Comment


    • been a while since I updated this... I've been remodeling my kitchen, which is taking all of my fun time, and most of my not fun time too...

      Rear hubcaps never fit, that bothered me...







      Fixed!

      I also got the suspension back together, the car back on four wheels, but I haven't driven it enough to determine how much of a difference has been made.



      I'm almost ashamed to say, the only progress I've made on the car in about 2 weeks, is purely aesthetic... I painted and reinstalled the sail panels, they look so much better now.



      I think I'm going to work on the exhaust and the interior a little bit this weekend, it would be nice for it to be quiet enough to not piss off the neighbors too much... I also really need to work on the tune still....
      "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

      1985 Pontiac Fiero, 3.5 V6 turbo, 5 speed
      1988 Suburban, 350 TBI 700r4, 4x4
      2006 2500 HD 6.0 4x4

      Comment


      • Prime and paint those adapters or they'll start to change colors but looks great man!
        Central TEXAS Sleeper
        USAF Physicist

        ROA# 9790

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CTX-SLPR View Post
          Prime and paint those adapters or they'll start to change colors but looks great man!
          Lol, about that... My tolerances were a little tighter than expected... they're stuck on there for the long haul...
          "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

          1985 Pontiac Fiero, 3.5 V6 turbo, 5 speed
          1988 Suburban, 350 TBI 700r4, 4x4
          2006 2500 HD 6.0 4x4

          Comment


          • I've been having issues with the brakes, mostly that I can't seem to get a firm pedal... I ordered one of the phoenix systems reverse bleeders, and am going to try pressure bleeding instead of vacuum. I also went ahead and ordered a AC delco master cylinder from an S10 blazer, it has a larger bore, but it otherwise a bolt on swap for the fiero part. it should help with the pedal feel.

            I'm in the middle of renovating my kitchen too, so as much as I hate to say it, the car is significantly on the back burner...
            "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

            1985 Pontiac Fiero, 3.5 V6 turbo, 5 speed
            1988 Suburban, 350 TBI 700r4, 4x4
            2006 2500 HD 6.0 4x4

            Comment


            • I can relate! Feel free to post up the kitchen pics - I'd love to compare notes.

              Dan

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ejs262 View Post
                I've been having issues with the brakes, mostly that I can't seem to get a firm pedal... I ordered one of the phoenix systems reverse bleeders, and am going to try pressure bleeding instead of vacuum. I also went ahead and ordered a AC delco master cylinder from an S10 blazer, it has a larger bore, but it otherwise a bolt on swap for the fiero part. it should help with the pedal feel.

                I'm in the middle of renovating my kitchen too, so as much as I hate to say it, the car is significantly on the back burner...
                you pushed the button on the end of the balancer?
                Doing it all wrong since 1966

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DanStokes View Post
                  I can relate! Feel free to post up the kitchen pics - I'd love to compare notes.

                  Dan

                  it's a really small crappy kitchen, I can't find any before pictures, but you can see some of the crappy old cabinets on top, and the new ones below.



                  and last night, I hung most of the call cabinets and install the new microwave, I haven't owned a microwave in years, so this is kinda a big deal...



                  Unfortunately, I don't have the countertops yet, or the next cabinet that goes along the far wall(special order) so until those get here, I'm kinda treading water...

                  Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post

                  you pushed the button on the end of the balancer?
                  on the combination valve off of the MC? The valve has reset itself every time it has tripped(as it should once there is pressure on both sides again), I've tried pushing it, it's not currently tripped.

                  I'm going to try a new master, I think this one might be garbage...

                  "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

                  1985 Pontiac Fiero, 3.5 V6 turbo, 5 speed
                  1988 Suburban, 350 TBI 700r4, 4x4
                  2006 2500 HD 6.0 4x4

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ejs262 View Post


                    it's a really small crappy kitchen, I can't find any before pictures, but you can see some of the crappy old cabinets on top, and the new ones below.



                    and last night, I hung most of the call cabinets and install the new microwave, I haven't owned a microwave in years, so this is kinda a big deal...



                    Unfortunately, I don't have the countertops yet, or the next cabinet that goes along the far wall(special order) so until those get here, I'm kinda treading water...



                    on the combination valve off of the MC? The valve has reset itself every time it has tripped(as it should once there is pressure on both sides again), I've tried pushing it, it's not currently tripped.

                    I'm going to try a new master, I think this one might be garbage...
                    I've had serial bias valves be bad.... often it is the impetus behind changing to an adjustable bias valve... for the real bux down, take it apart and clean the bore....

                    If you know this, my apologies for the restatement. The bias valve has springs in it that push the valve to completely close a circuit that has lost fluid. Any water in its past - and it's made out of brass - guarantees that there's corrosion inside. That corrosion will make the valve stick then you've got a permanent bias but not necessarily in the direction you need.... far too often people blame the master when it's the bias valve (aka proportion valve) which is the culprit.... that is double true when you mix and match brake calipers....

                    Also

                    brake pads. On my Suburban (especially), my wife light-foots braking and I get into it and basically do a quick rebed of the pads (the 40 to 10 mph hard stops x4)... sometimes that is the issue as well.
                    Doing it all wrong since 1966

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post

                      I've had serial bias valves be bad.... often it is the impetus behind changing to an adjustable bias valve... for the real bux down, take it apart and clean the bore....

                      If you know this, my apologies for the restatement. The bias valve has springs in it that push the valve to completely close a circuit that has lost fluid. Any water in its past - and it's made out of brass - guarantees that there's corrosion inside. That corrosion will make the valve stick then you've got a permanent bias but not necessarily in the direction you need.... far too often people blame the master when it's the bias valve (aka proportion valve) which is the culprit.... that is double true when you mix and match brake calipers....

                      Also

                      brake pads. On my Suburban (especially), my wife light-foots braking and I get into it and basically do a quick rebed of the pads (the 40 to 10 mph hard stops x4)... sometimes that is the issue as well.
                      yeah, I went through a bunch of problems with my suburban and learned a bunch about what I have always referred to a combination valve, and you refer to as a "Bias valve". it's an interesting part, mine appears to be operating as desired.

                      If I continue to have problems, I'll likely pick up a wilwood master/proportioning valve setup and make it work instead of continuing with OEM parts, this would have a double advantage of allowing me to adjust bias which I have been told makes a significant difference on these cars. if it wasn't a ~$450 setup(10x more than OEM), I probably would have already done it.
                      "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

                      1985 Pontiac Fiero, 3.5 V6 turbo, 5 speed
                      1988 Suburban, 350 TBI 700r4, 4x4
                      2006 2500 HD 6.0 4x4

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ejs262 View Post


                        it's a really small crappy kitchen, I can't find any before pictures, but you can see some of the crappy old cabinets on top, and the new ones below.



                        and last night, I hung most of the call cabinets and install the new microwave, I haven't owned a microwave in years, so this is kinda a big deal...



                        Unfortunately, I don't have the countertops yet, or the next cabinet that goes along the far wall(special order) so until those get here, I'm kinda treading water...
                        Kitchen is looking good so far. I had to set all the lower cabinets before they could come and shoot for the countertop fitment - it worked perfectly. With the new laser fitting process they make up for all those slight irregularities in the walls, etc. and the countertops (we went with quartz) fit perfectly. Your cabinets look similar to the ones we went with.

                        Dan
                        Last edited by DanStokes; March 27, 2021, 02:27 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DanStokes View Post

                          Kitchen is looking good so far. I had to set all the lower cabinets,before they could come and shoot for the countertop fitment - it worked perfectly. With the new laser fitting process they make up for all those slight irregularities in the walls, etc. and the countertops (we went with quartz) fit perfectly. Your cabinets look similar to the ones we went with.

                          Dan
                          Thanks!

                          I'm not as fancy as Quartz, these will be plain old laminate, I need to keep it inexpensive. I really wish the rest of the stuff I need would hurry up and get here so I can get this closer to "finished"
                          "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

                          1985 Pontiac Fiero, 3.5 V6 turbo, 5 speed
                          1988 Suburban, 350 TBI 700r4, 4x4
                          2006 2500 HD 6.0 4x4

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ejs262 View Post

                            yeah, I went through a bunch of problems with my suburban and learned a bunch about what I have always referred to a combination valve, and you refer to as a "Bias valve". it's an interesting part, mine appears to be operating as desired.

                            .
                            proportioning valve, bias valve... in theory, the master cylinder has some bias to it both for trail braking (cars normally start dragging the rear pads before the front so you stop straight) and for proportioning the amount of fluid to each end. I've gotten both lucky and unlucky in getting the right master cylinder. On my 70 Skylark, I put Camaro disk brake rears on it, and it never stopped right - no matter the master cylinder (either drum or Corvette 50/50 mc) or proportioning valve... I'd love to get the car back and have another go at it with my additional learning. I think I failed on those because the rear needed a larger line to give more volume. On my current C3, I put a Corvette MC, Corvette bias valve and adapted the Corvette lines to all Brembo brakes from a 2010 Camaro.... I think that was key - matched front/rear calipers along with the 50/50 split ... alternatively, I had an 83 Chevy truck I put disks on the back and it stopped perfect with the disk/drum MC and stock proportioning valve (as does my FJ40 with the same setup only a wilwood proportioning valve but no safety splitter

                            Doing it all wrong since 1966

                            Comment


                            • bleh, I hate brakes so much... My buddy (who has a sick 88 fiero with a 3.9 V6 swap) came by to help me bleed the brakes, we bled them and bled them, and got nothing. I used a phoenix systems reverse bleeder on the calipers as a last ditch effort, and the fluid that left the front right caliper was disgusting. almost black, all the others were clean. the calipers on this car, were a hybrid of C5 and 4th generation F body calipers, which took a ton of effort to assemble, as all the parts look the same, but are different enough to cause problems. so instead of just replacing the front right, I swapped all four for off the shelf C5 calipers to prevent any further headache down the road should I need to replace the pads or hardware. The next night, my buddy came back over and we bled them again, this time getting a better pedal, but still very low. at this point, I figured the master cylinder was too small, so I stepped up bigtime.

                              Here's the new master alongside an S10 blazer master:



                              The new master is off of a 1996 chevy C3500hd and has a 1.57" bore, it physically bolts in place fine, but the reservoir is HUGE, so I pried it off and installed a stock fiero reservoir. The reservoir removes by simply pulling it off, not fasteners hold it on. The lines connect in the same position, but, the fittings are not the same size. I fixed this by cutting the lines just behind the flare, and removing the OE tube nuts, which I replaced with nuts of the correct size, then I flared the line and bolted everything back together.

                              where I cut the flares:





                              use a double flare kit, it looks like this:




                              The parts list:

                              New MC:

                              Free Shipping - Cardone New Master Cylinders with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Master Cylinders at Summit Racing.


                              1/4" tube nuts:

                              Free Shipping - Summit Racing™ Inverted Flare Tube Nut Fittings with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Hard Line Flared Tube Nuts at Summit Racing.


                              3/16" tube nuts:

                              Free Shipping - Summit Racing™ Inverted Flare Tube Nut Fittings with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Hard Line Flared Tube Nuts at Summit Racing.


                              now, lets talk results. with the S10 MC, the pedal feel was crap, and the travel was very long. Using the C3500HD MC I have a firm pedal, but the travel is very short, honestly I think it might be too short, so if I have a reason to crack the system open again, I'll probably install a 3/4 ton master to replace the 1 ton, it's 1.25" instead of 1.57" and should be a direct bolt in now that the I have the 1 ton master installed.

                              3/4 ton MC:

                              Free Shipping - Dorman Brake Master Cylinders with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Master Cylinders at Summit Racing.


                              after all this nonsense, I finally drove the car for the first time in ages. because my fuel sender works, and it showed empty, I figured it would be a good idea to stop and fill it up at which point I found out the O ring on top of my fuel tank is shot, or not sealing, as the pump clicked off, and I heard the splash of the fuel hitting the ground...thankfully it was a very small amount of fuel, probably only a 1/2 cup or so, but it was enough to let me know I need to drop the tank and fix it. the part I'm still unsure of, is if my car has an 85 sender still, or an 87+, I don't remember which I installed when I put the tank in 7 years ago, and I don't know how to tell the difference, if it's still the 85 sender, that would explain the leak, as both senders are different.

                              I ended up putting about 35 miles on the car today, and it felt really good, but it does need more front camber, tighter rear springs, and/or a rear sway bar.

                              as proof it left the house, here's a shot of it outside the brewery I frequent.







                              in other, less important news, I'm going to be moving soon, so I wanted to get some parts of the car put back together so I would have less stuff to move or worry about breaking in transit. I got the headliner put in, and have the interior about 2/3's of the way complete for the first time in who knows how long.

                              The hard plastic parts of a Fiero interior are ABS plastic, and they frequently break during disassembly. I'm in the middle of a kitchen remodel, and saw the can of ABS pipe cement from a sink install and figured I would try it. It worked AWESOME, the downside, the cement is black, and will likely not match if it is visible. for things like the console skeleton, this is fine, visible stuff, not so much. I painted my "A" pillar trim black, so it doesn't matter to me.

                              I'm told the cement is ABS plastic, dissolved in acetone, I have not confirmed this, but it may be possible to dissolve some of a non-salvageable piece in acetone, and have a "DIY" cement in the factory colors, to avoid an obvious repair job being an eyesore. it may also be possible to get ABS filament for a 3d printer in the color you need, or close, and use that. I'm waiting on some replacement interior clips to get here to button it up a little more, but so far it's coming together nicely.



                              "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

                              1985 Pontiac Fiero, 3.5 V6 turbo, 5 speed
                              1988 Suburban, 350 TBI 700r4, 4x4
                              2006 2500 HD 6.0 4x4

                              Comment


                              • I hope that soon it fails to fail. I drove it around for a bit, and the damn thing spun a rod bearing... DOH!




                                do you like babbit with your oil?



                                the timing meant I wasn't able to even look at the car for a couple of months, in may, I moved accross the country from Washington, to SC, started a new job, bought a new house, all sorts of fun. while it was still in Washington, I threw a new rod bearing in to make it easier to move.

                                come July, and I'm moved in to my new house, it's a dump, and there may or may not be some buyer's remorse... The house did have something vaguely resembling a garage though.

                                it's really rough, but it's kinda big, definitely bigger than what I had, among other downsides, it doesn't have power, but I was able to get it wired up for 200 amp service, with a passed inspection, now I just need to wait on the power company to come out and hook me up.



                                it will do while I contemplate what I'm going to build to replace it.




                                In the meantime, I bought another LX9 V6, and a slightly smaller camshaft, I'm hoping to pick up some low end torque, as well as spool a little faster. additionally, I won't need valve reliefs for the smaller camshaft.














                                The new engine was dirty, but I've seen worse. I cut open the oil filter, and I didn't see anything that scared me.




                                one of the things I was not fond of in this car, was the flywheel. it's a china cast part, from the parts store. I would be more ok with it, if it wasn't inline with my right shoulder waiting to take my arm off and prevent me from ever driving a five speed again. so I bought this:


                                it's a Fidanza billet unit. I fee much better about it than the iron flywheel. However, aluminum tends to have creep problems, I wanted to do everything I could to minimize that, the best way to do that, is to displace the load over a larger area, so I machined, ground, deburred some washers to fit snugly in the counter bores.






                                now there's a new problem... Thread engagement with the washers is lacking, I had three bolts to look at, Stock LX9, WOT-Tech ARP Bolts, and Ford 5.0 Coyote bolts.








                                The ford bolts were the ticket, they have HUGE heads on them, so much so that I almost couldn't fit a socket on them into the counterbores. I ended up running them without the washers, and shaving .075" off the ends of them to keep them from bottoming out in the crank and not tightening on the flywheel.

                                One of the bigger problems I had last time I installed the engine and transmission, is that there was nowhere to put an intercooler, My solution for this, was to move a transmission mount, and make a new crossmember This is my current in progress work.

                                here, you can see both the old trans mount on the bellhousing, and the new trans mount near the cradles framerail, as well as an outline showing where the new crossmember will go.






                                I goofed a little bit while making the new mount, the top plate should have been about 5/16" further, I ended up having to notch the mount, and then plate over the notch to clear a boss on the transmission









                                here's the boss under the mount









                                the new bushing for the mount will sit like this, it's a poly leaf spring bushing.






                                This is the weakest part of the new mount, I'm fairly confident that the bolts will pull out of the top of the transmission case before this area becomes a problem






                                I need to develop a more complete to-do list.

                                Trans mount and crossmember
                                Fix fuel tank leak

                                hook up vapor tank and some kind of charcoal canister or filter

                                new clutch line

                                lap V-band

                                install mufflers

                                remember rest of list
                                Last edited by ejs262; December 8, 2021, 10:08 PM.
                                "I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

                                1985 Pontiac Fiero, 3.5 V6 turbo, 5 speed
                                1988 Suburban, 350 TBI 700r4, 4x4
                                2006 2500 HD 6.0 4x4

                                Comment

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