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  • dave.g.in.gansevoort
    replied
    I stay somewhere between those. I used dom, which starts life as welded tube, but then it's, wait for it..........


    Drawn over mandrel (dom, get it?), to size it and smooth the weld seam. It also work hardens during the process, raising the strength of the tubing with minimal loss of ductility. And doesn't need heat treatment to normalize like 4130, to prevent it from being brittle.

    So I can use 1.5x0.095, meaning use what I got! Wahoo, don't have to buy a $400 bender die!

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  • DanStokes
    replied
    Originally posted by dave.g.in.gansevoort View Post

    No, I have a copy you already sent me, and it's the same vintage. I was attempting to co-op your brilliant mind, and excellent internet abilities to find out the crossover point of material selection. I know SCCA is good with the current setup and size of the tubing for that weight of vehicles. I seem to remember that we discussed NHRA a while back, and it wants something a bit heavier. But I don't know what. So, see I was delegating authority to confirm the crossover point to you...

    My NHRA knowledge is second hand and fuzzy at best. In reality, I've taken Mutt to Coastal Plains (1/8 mile track) for shakedown testing and nobody even looked - the cage could have been PVC and they wouldn't have known. Pretty sure that's an NHRA track. One of the guys must have an NHRA rule book - RUSSELL!!!!!

    Back after a quick Google search: Dragzine says 1 3/8 tubing, 0.090 wall, chrome moly or seamless steel. So your 1 5/8 x 0.120 wall is plenty. I did my cage additions in welded seam steel tubing and even Joe Timney (long time ECTA safety guru and proprietor of Delaware Chassis Works) said that welded seam tubing is fine as long as you put the seam at the inside of the bend. Nobody has ever seen welded seam tubing come apart in a crash. I used it because our local steel supply store carries 1 5/8 OD 0.120 wall welded seam in stock so it's easy to get and relatively inexpensive. No doubt, seamless is more groovy.
    Last edited by DanStokes; December 2, 2023, 12:27 PM.

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  • dave.g.in.gansevoort
    replied
    Originally posted by DanStokes View Post

    KABOOM!!!! (That was a shotgun blast)


    Want me to send you an SCTA rulebook? I have the 2020 rulebook and that section hasn't changed much. I'm confident if you build to that you'll be all set. The 1 5/8 tube and 0.120 wall is fine. There's a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about gussets but basically brace where you can so the cage can't fold laterally. In a 100ish MPH car they'll be thrilled with pretty much any attempt at a decent cage. The specs are written assuming 200 MPH+ and they don't tell you that there's a bit of wiggle room. If you were going to Bonneville you would want to send pics to the SCTA tech guys but for Loring you should be fine thought a few pics to them might be in order before we make the haul.
    No, I have a copy you already sent me, and it's the same vintage. I was attempting to co-op your brilliant mind, and excellent internet abilities to find out the crossover point of material selection. I know SCCA is good with the current setup and size of the tubing for that weight of vehicles. I seem to remember that we discussed NHRA a while back, and it wants something a bit heavier. But I don't know what. So, see I was delegating authority to confirm the crossover point to you...

    Leave a comment:


  • Russell
    replied
    Originally posted by Beagle View Post

    I think Keith Turk used to take that "neat in appearance" thing from the rule book pretty serious though, if he's still playing in the ECTA. I haven't heard from/about him in a while, hope he and Tonya are doing good. Dan?

    )
    I saw Keith and Tanya in September? At Rockingham when I played hocky from work and went to Drag week for the day. Don't recall his title but Keith is their race director?, and Tanya is in charge of the time slips and a bunch more I am sure.

    They seem to be doing well. They were at Sick week 2022 not sure about this year. They are both on that other well known social media that I don't like to mention.

    They are working on a nomad That is going to be sweet.
    Last edited by Russell; December 4, 2023, 02:54 PM.

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  • DanStokes
    replied
    Originally posted by dave.g.in.gansevoort View Post
    So Dan, I have some questions regarding rollcage construction, specifically the specs on the tubing. My current cage in the Mini is SCCA compliant, well if all of the bars were back in. And seeing as how I have to restructure stuff anyway, it got me thinking about why not ensure that the material is appropriate for wherever it ends up running. And realistically it won't be a rocket ship with 61 ci of displacement.

    So 1.625 inch diameter tubing for the main cage? And wall thickness of 0.120 inch. I'll be using dom regardless. And I would have to procure the correct dies for the tubing bender. I'll copy the design of the current setup, except for the plates for the floor. You mentioned the size those need to be earlier.

    So what I'm after is for you to peruse the rules of various sanctions you're familiar with and see if there's a common thread for size. It's just a small ask. And I know you can't shoot me for asking...
    KABOOM!!!! (That was a shotgun blast)


    Want me to send you an SCTA rulebook? I have the 2020 rulebook and that section hasn't changed much. I'm confident if you build to that you'll be all set. The 1 5/8 tube and 0.120 wall is fine. There's a bunch of mumbo-jumbo about gussets but basically brace where you can so the cage can't fold laterally. In a 100ish MPH car they'll be thrilled with pretty much any attempt at a decent cage. The specs are written assuming 200 MPH+ and they don't tell you that there's a bit of wiggle room. If you were going to Bonneville you would want to send pics to the SCTA tech guys but for Loring you should be fine thought a few pics to them might be in order before we make the haul.

    Leave a comment:


  • dave.g.in.gansevoort
    replied
    So Dan, I have some questions regarding rollcage construction, specifically the specs on the tubing. My current cage in the Mini is SCCA compliant, well if all of the bars were back in. And seeing as how I have to restructure stuff anyway, it got me thinking about why not ensure that the material is appropriate for wherever it ends up running. And realistically it won't be a rocket ship with 61 ci of displacement.

    So 1.625 inch diameter tubing for the main cage? And wall thickness of 0.120 inch. I'll be using dom regardless. And I would have to procure the correct dies for the tubing bender. I'll copy the design of the current setup, except for the plates for the floor. You mentioned the size those need to be earlier.

    So what I'm after is for you to peruse the rules of various sanctions you're familiar with and see if there's a common thread for size. It's just a small ask. And I know you can't shoot me for asking...

    Leave a comment:


  • dave.g.in.gansevoort
    replied
    Originally posted by DanStokes View Post
    Yes I remember. Pretty good for me.
    Well you know there are 3 things that we loose as we get older: the first is our memory. I don't have a clue what the other one is...

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  • DanStokes
    replied
    Yes I remember. Pretty good for me.

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  • dave.g.in.gansevoort
    replied
    Originally posted by DanStokes View Post
    I'm with Dave on the chemical stripper. I've found stripping wheels for the 4 1/2" grinder and they are GREAT! I buy 'em by the 10 pack. Dave - that tech wasn't around in the A2 days so not available to us.

    Wonder why I didn't do the bonnet. Maybe it wasn't screwed to anything.
    Well, it was getting dark, I had driven the Mini to your place, and we did whatever it was that you said to do out in the driveway. Something about not making a big, wet mess inside the garage, as I remember. Probably more accurate to say neither of us wanted to empty out whatever was in the work bay, so outside it was...

    And I had had a little oops with the bonnet, and we had talked about redoing it. The latch didn't hold. And fortunately I was only doing about 30 mph. I still have that bonnet, it still has the slight crease, and I'll probably never repair it. You may remember the rubber straps that were used to hold both the boot and bonnet closed after that. Or not...

    Leave a comment:


  • DanStokes
    replied
    I'm with Dave on the chemical stripper. I've found stripping wheels for the 4 1/2" grinder and they are GREAT! I buy 'em by the 10 pack. Dave - that tech wasn't around in the A2 days so not available to us.

    Wonder why I didn't do the bonnet. Maybe it wasn't screwed to anything.

    Leave a comment:


  • dave.g.in.gansevoort
    replied
    And a cautionary note. DON'T EVER, REPEAT, DON'T EVER chemical strip a car. I don't care how good they say they are at neutralizing or washing out the chemicals, some residual will remain. And sooner or later the stuff WILL get wet. And that's when the problems start. The Mini has lots of pinch seams, exposed to the outside, and British water soluble steel. 5 years later the rust returned and was worse than before. Hence the 2nd body shell.

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  • dave.g.in.gansevoort
    replied
    Yes, that's something. What is open to debate.

    Click image for larger version

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ID:	1345818 Here's where it sits right now. Part old Mini, part new Mini. That is in the order that I acquired them. Red stuff, the 2nd one, white stuff, the 1st one. The roof is stored safety in the shed with all of the glass. I'm planning to reconfigure the roll cage to tie both subframes together. The floor will bolt to the cage, not the other way around. It will become a tube frame car sporting a Mini skin. Think NASCAR type frame but with Mini subframes. Hey, now that I think about it, the current generation of NASCAR stock car is patterned after my Mini. Dan, you may remember the way I built the 1st one was kind of ship in a bottle.

    This time I am building the chassis and skinning it, well sort of. Having the roof off really helps make it easier to fit the tubing in. And I can get all the way around the tubes for welding. One question is the fuel cell. It's an ATL, 5 gallon, brand new, never used, but it is 20 years old. SCCA will require a new bladder, how about the land spped guys?

    One last picture, of the first one, on my birthday in 1996, and it was just finished. My attempt at painting and Dan's efforts to salvage the paint. He was a mess after running his buffer over most of the car. Never did get back on the hood, er that is the bonnet.
    Click image for larger version

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    He did all of the big flatish panels and left the bonnet for later. Look closely at the picture and you'll see the roll cage.

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  • DanStokes
    replied
    Originally posted by Captain View Post
    Pix for thought.
    A Mini is so small inside, you have to Step Out to Change Your Mind !!
    So how about a Exocage?
    And Paint is So Over Rated !!
    And look at the Weight Ratio you will Improve with NO Paint.....go ahead, have that 2nd donut with your coffee.

    Click image for larger version

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    That's - um - something.

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  • Captain
    replied
    Pix for thought.
    A Mini is so small inside, you have to Step Out to Change Your Mind !!
    So how about a Exocage?
    And Paint is So Over Rated !!
    And look at the Weight Ratio you will Improve with NO Paint.....go ahead, have that 2nd donut with your coffee.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Vlcsnap-2015-09-13-22h13m32s568.png
Views:	38
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ID:	1345794 ​​​​​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • dave.g.in.gansevoort
    replied
    Well, if we do it, it's going to be naturally aspirated. I have a Weber 45 DCOE and a killer aluminium head for the A-series engine. Roller rockers. Demo Elgin custom ground cam (met him because of Norm...). And the 1300 short block is freshly rebuilt.

    If my back starts to cooperate with me, I'll pull out the suspension bits and bobs and see what's needed. Probably just tires, as the newest set are 24 years old. Hoosiers, vintage race slicks stored since 2001. Good for setup, not for use...

    Now back to our regularly scheduled Whatever project report. Got some tooling to fit oversized kingpins to the 37 tube axle. That's next on the list. Then I have to get some small diameter tubing for the the tie rod and drag link and some new radius rods.

    And I was in the shed looking for a set of valve cover load spreaders for Chevy tin covers the other night. Just around dusk. Heard noises. What the...
    The sounds were coming from the back of the shed. Couldn't tell if it was inside or outside. Didn't want to find out one of a couple of hard ways. Bailed on it for the night. Went down to the shed yesterday, , no noises, found the load spreaders. And took a magic marker to the Chevrolet script on Loren's valve covers. They'll look good on the 283 later today. But first to the dealer for a sort of recall.

    When I got the Blazer a year ago September, it was short a chip or two. Something to do with a backup sensor or parking assistance or maybe both??? And the chips are finally available. They are going to be installed around noon today. I don't have a clue. I haven't missed anything, so I don't know if I'll get any use out of whatever they are.

    So little to do, so much time... Wait! What? Reverse those words

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