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  • #61
    If it helps, I can't see it from my house.....
    Doing it all wrong since 1966

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    • #62
      Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post
      If it helps, I can't see it from my house.....
      Thanks SBG!It helps!

      The funny thing is I have cogitated and ruminated on the subject and still alas and alack, I don't see an elegant solution. I've got the coil overs strapped at the ride height length, and keep looking at the area where they mostlikely need to attach, and I am slowly coming to the realization that the turtle deck needs to be cut.

      Oh well, if I have to I must

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      • #63
        Don't worry about cutting the fiberglass. At worst you can glass the pieces back in place and do it differently. It's just like welding but with more or less glue. Easy-Peasy. There are several good brands of 'glass and resin but the Marson stuff is usually pretty good. I'd check in with my local body shop supply store.

        Dan

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        • #64
          pivot rod?
          Doing it all wrong since 1966

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          • #65
            Thanks for the positive vibes guys! Like Ihave said earlier, I never realized just how little room a t with turtle deck has.

            I perused a number of your builds getting ideas, and looked at old race car pictures, sprints modifieds supermodifieds. And I have been laying on the floor under it looking at the room (such as it has...) and have established a plan of attack.

            1st-the back of the frame needs to be extended to the extreme rear of the turtle deck (add another 2 inches-hey it's only steel just weld more on)
            2nd-extend the under bars the same. At the same time add a removable section to allow the QC to drop out. I forgot I have to get the rear out for final build, and welded the under bars without thinking. At least it was just tack welds

            3rd-bend 2 new tubes to attach the shock mounts to the frame. Copying someone's idea from some thread somewhere... I came up witha way to go from the lower tubes and attach to the main frame rails, without cutting the turtle deck And gain adjustability at the same time, so if I change from the current set of shocks to a slightly longer (1+ inch) Koni coil over it won't require another redesign. The current shocks are geared for a street vehicle, the Konis are race car shock, and would beat the stuff out of me on a longish drive. For a track day or autocross, they would be more appropriate.

            4th-mount the ATL 8-gallon fuel cell under the turtle deck. It will clear the QC by a couple of inches with the frame stretched to the max as intended.

            5th-figure out seating position approximately, so I can design the pedals and the make a pivot shaft. I saw some pedals again on someone's thread () and liked the look, as well as I think they will fit where they have to go.

            6-get a steering box and get it mounted. I'd use a Schroeder 9:1 champ car steering I have, but it's a-toowide, and b-too fast. I'm thinking once Borgeson has Vega boxes back in stock that's what I'll use.

            So that's on the menu for this week

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            • #66
              I will second Dan's comment that you should have no fear of dealing with fiberglass - with the modern epoxy - it's SO much more forgiving than the old stinky quick setting brittle vinyl/ester stuff.
              You're already way more talented with metal than I was when I starting cutting up fiberglass boats - you can totally do it, you already have all the skills with the welding / fab work you've already mastered.
              There's always something new to learn.

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              • #67
                I appreciate all the positive vibes (60s speak...). I am still working on the premise that I won't have to cut the body and so far only have had to cut out the turtle deck opening. That's hidden under the deck lid, so I knew I could live with it if I damaged the remaining flange or made a little crooked cut. I'll get back to you guys for help, advise, moral support, when it comes time to put some wood in it. Until that time, I'm not cutting!

                So a verbal update, for what it's worth. After mounting the turtle deck on the body correctly, I realized I had made the frame rails a little short. The first lengthening was 7 inches. It wasn't enough. So yesterday, I added 2 more inches. Hey it's only steel, it cuts and welds and grinds just fine. So it won't show once painted.

                And if you look at the old photos from early on, the under bars in the rear attached at the old end of the rails. And if you are really observant and notice that I had the QC in the chassis when I welded them on, you will be saying to yourself "How the [email protected]#$ is he going to get the QC out?" Well the added 9 inches (7+2=9) will be put in with flanges in the lower bars. That way I can unbolt those lengthening pieces and drop the QC straight down. 1 problem solved.

                I also added a different rear crossmember to the frame. It's a section of 1x2 rectangular tube I had in the short bin. It's welded in flush with the top of the rear rails and right at the back. With it where it is, I can fit my 8 gallon ATL fuel cell in behind the QC (barely, but I can get the gear cover off). And it fits under the turtle deck. When done I plan on having an old Moon flip top tank cap sticking out of the body thru the deck lid. Once I get to making the belly pan. it will cover the lower extreme of the fuel cell.

                Now if I can figure out how to hammer a compound curve in aluminum and not have it look like a bag of walnuts!

                Pictures are overdue. I'll take some tomorrow as I weld all the stuff together that is waiting for the heat

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                • #68


                  Waiting for pics! As, always, you do interesting stuff. Wish we lived closer together......

                  Dan

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by DanStokes View Post


                    Waiting for pics! As, always, you do interesting stuff. Wish we lived closer together......

                    Dan
                    Well no pictures like promised today Dan. Another one of those dang migraine days. And it's been cold and rainy on top of that. And my nephew stopped on his way to spend the weekend with his parents in Burlington, so totally unproductive "Whatever" day.

                    Yes I wish we were closer also. Maggie and I would love to be able to visit you and ME on a weekly if not more often basis. Oh well...

                    Besides we need to get the paint band back together. I still hate painting. And body work...Have I ever told you guys how much I hate paint and body work?

                    But I did get everything fixtured at least to allow welding tomorrow. So I guess I did accomplish a tiny bit...

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                    • #70
                      I'm not doing as much paint as I used to. I found a local guy with a home made booth who has reasonable prices. With the booth his paint has a LOT fewer flecks of dust, insects, etc. than I can pull off so I usually take my stuff to Harry. Still, I do a bit here and there as needed.

                      Dan

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                      • #71
                        So a lot cleaner than my A^2 garage where 2 Rustangs got paint? We had good luck in your garage, however. Granted those were rust/wreck/low buck for friends jobs, but I thought you did really good with what we had, especially the Aerostar for Peter C. and the Taurus for James. I won't discuss the Mini as that was the 3 times I will paint a car myself: 1st, last and only times!

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                        • #72
                          You forget, mine was painted at MAACO though we did the body work and prep. I had the hope that the paint would be better than I could do but it wasn't! I think I'll have Harry do the 'Stang this time.

                          Folks - I tried to get Dave to wait until I could come over and shoot the Mini but he got impatient and drysprayed it himself. I could have taught him.......

                          Dan

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by DanStokes View Post
                            You forget, mine was painted at MAACO though we did the body work and prep. I had the hope that the paint would be better than I could do but it wasn't! I think I'll have Harry do the 'Stang this time.

                            Folks - I tried to get Dave to wait until I could come over and shoot the Mini but he got impatient and drysprayed it himself. I could have taught him.......

                            Dan
                            No you couldn't. I'm a thick headed engineer, and we both know how that works out

                            And it wasn't dry sprayed, it was dry dusted.

                            I never had to paint the race cars way back when. One continuous sponsor for Jim and me was Tony Casalla, Casalla's Body Shop in Pittsfield, MA. He did the pretty work for us and only asked for a small sign on the stands side of the car visible from the stands... Well at least at slow speeds before it got all muddy!

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                            • #74
                              Back in the garage a bit each day this week. Got the frame extended, the under rails extended and flanged to have a drop out for getting the QC out without taking it apart, and the fuel cell mounting started. So has anyone else who's used a 25 t bucket and turtle deck ever noticed how little room there is in one of these thing? People were obviously tiny when those cars were new.

                              Click image for larger version

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ID:	1295105 This picture shows all of the rear progress. Thru the turtle deck can be seen the fuel cell cap. There is a square steel tube upright in line with the coilover that needs a bracket. You know one that doesn't needme to cut the body and goes from the square tube to the top of the coilover. And there might even be enough room for a battery back there.

                              Click image for larger version

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ID:	1295106 Zoom in on this picture and see where the rod end is? It needs to be lower down in the square tube just under it. Gets the geometry back to where I planned it and gives more clearance to the body (really needed on the other side).

                              Another thing I am considering: going backto an engine plate for the rear of the engine. It would be the firewall also, right up against the body's firewall. I need to get the engine sitting level with the framerails so that the firewall/engine plate will be parallel to the body firewall, so new front engine mounts. And if I do that I am considering a cowl hoop (like a roll bar) at the dash plane. By bracing these together, I may then be able to hang the pedals from all that. I have an idea on how to keep the master cylinders from being outside on the firewall as well. And if I decide to use the Schroeder steering box, assuming it isn't too wide moved a little towards the door, it gives some structure to mount the box to. And also plaigerizing an idea from another build thread elsewhere I can use the hoop to support the windshield. I like things doing more than one thing... Click image for larger version

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ID:	1295107 One last picture just because...

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                              • #75
                                Ok, so the last couple of days have been "The Best of times, the worst of times"! Well maybe not that bad, but the old back acted up precipitating the consumption of muscle relaxants a couple of days ago.

                                Remember when we were young, and there was good stuff available? Today's prescription stuff has it beat

                                So I finally figured out how to conect tab A to Slot C using wrench B and Colonel Mustard in the Library! Click image for larger version

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ID:	1295282 See that hole with the sleeve in it? There is another one on the other side, as well as the upright brace tube. That is what led to the down time. Boring a hole thru 2 walls of 1/8 inch thick steel with a pistol drill and a 1 3/4 hole saw in a bad bent over position was not fun. But it got done!

                                Click image for larger version

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ID:	1295283 And here was this morning's efforts. The sleeve is 1 3/4 dom 1/8 wall, the extension arm is 1 1/2 dom 1/8 wall. I ran out of gumption here so there is still 1 item missing, a diagonal brace up from the lower end of the square tube to some clever (as yet not clevered out...is that a word?) removable attachment, like a tab or 2, so that the whole assembly will slide out. Now when I get the body and turtle decl mounts worked out, I can just use a section of tubing that slides thru the tomark the turtle deck, and bore a clearance hole. So no big holes in the body!.

                                And just in case it flexes a little bit, I have some 1 1/4 dom 1/8 wall tube that slides snuggly thru the main tube. I plan on capping the inner end of the sleeve and the support tube. The cap on the sleeve will have a clearance hole for a 1/2 inch unf bolt, and the cap on the support tube will have a nut to match welded on to bolt it solid.

                                So I'm happy! No big ugly cuts in the body, just a clearance hole. Woo Hoo!

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