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The "Whatever" Project

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  • The next thing to advance on the Whatever project is seating. I'm looking at Speedway's bomber seats, they are 16 inches wide. I should be able to fit the gluteus maximus in one. I was going to use Kirkey's vintage seats, as I have one, but they've changed since I bought one. Now they have lightening holes. My older unused one doesn't, so I'll save it for the next project.

    So that's this week's efforts, buying 2 seats. I also have to measure for a battery and its box. Dan made me do it! I have an ancient Shell display battery that has a size still available. So I'll start by seeing if it fits in the turtle deck.

    Funny side story. I got it in 76 from a friend who had a Shell station in town. It's empty and always was, it was just on a shelf in the station for display. It's a large battery, and Sam had supplied me with a real battery, same one only real. Now when we got to the track, and got thru tech,, mainly weight, another long story, we'd HAVE to change starters. Well that's what we claimed. We did have an engine that ate starters 14 to 1 compression on methanol.

    So I had a starter with aluminum snout that was gutted. There went 10 pounds give or take. And Jim never looked at the gauges so no need for gauge lights. Nothing else required the battery as we ran magnetos and mechanical injection. So slide out the full battery, slide in the display battery. Now that's a significant amount of weight to get rid of.

    Set up the chassis for half way through the load of fuel, 40 gallons of methanol, and it's going to be better late in the race. Oh and after weigh-In drain the framerails of the 10 gallons of water, change from the trailer tires, old M&H cast iron tires on really heavy steel wheels, and suddenly the car weighs a lot less than 2450 pounds. Which helped because we ran a 350 against unlimited big blocks. Yes they had to run gasoline with a single 4 barrel, but man they had bunches more torque!

    Now don't think we were cheating. Most of the cars didn't get weighed evert week, only at the start of the season and maybe once during the year. So a big block car minimum weight was 2650, most cars were probably 3 to 4 hundred pounds underweight, or between 2250 to 2350. In the book "The modifieds of Lebanon Valley " there's a story about one of the track favorites having the tires filled with water. Funny thing was that guy raced against Jim in the sportsman class a few years before when Jim won opening night with a brand new car, but got protested after the race for weight. Even with a full tank of fuel, and the engine filled with oil until it was coming out of the valve covers, it was 37 pounds light. We were forever branded as cheaters!

    Jim wasn't a track favorite back then. But he was the first active driver to be enshrined in the New York State Stockcar Association hall of fame, and the Valley's as well back in the mid oughts. At the time he was the second winningest driver across the classes he raced in, and had the most 2nd place finishes by a huge margin, at about 250 seconds. Jim was not a crasher, and raced clean. Of course most of his 50 plus years racing he owned his own equipment. Thus wrecks were his own to repair. Makes a big difference when it's your own money and effort to get back to the track...

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    • Originally posted by dave.g.in.gansevoort View Post
      The next thing to advance on the Whatever project is seating. I'm looking at Speedway's bomber seats, they are 16 inches wide. I should be able to fit the gluteus maximus in one. I was going to use Kirkey's vintage seats, as I have one, but they've changed since I bought one. Now they have lightening holes. My older unused one doesn't, so I'll save it for the next project.

      So that's this week's efforts, buying 2 seats. I also have to measure for a battery and its box. Dan made me do it! I have an ancient Shell display battery that has a size still available. So I'll start by seeing if it fits in the turtle deck.

      Funny side story. I got it in 76 from a friend who had a Shell station in town. It's empty and always was, it was just on a shelf in the station for display. It's a large battery, and Sam had supplied me with a real battery, same one only real. Now when we got to the track, and got thru tech,, mainly weight, another long story, we'd HAVE to change starters. Well that's what we claimed. We did have an engine that ate starters 14 to 1 compression on methanol.

      So I had a starter with aluminum snout that was gutted. There went 10 pounds give or take. And Jim never looked at the gauges so no need for gauge lights. Nothing else required the battery as we ran magnetos and mechanical injection. So slide out the full battery, slide in the display battery. Now that's a significant amount of weight to get rid of.

      Set up the chassis for half way through the load of fuel, 40 gallons of methanol, and it's going to be better late in the race. Oh and after weigh-In drain the framerails of the 10 gallons of water, change from the trailer tires, old M&H cast iron tires on really heavy steel wheels, and suddenly the car weighs a lot less than 2450 pounds. Which helped because we ran a 350 against unlimited big blocks. Yes they had to run gasoline with a single 4 barrel, but man they had bunches more torque!

      Now don't think we were cheating. Most of the cars didn't get weighed evert week, only at the start of the season and maybe once during the year. So a big block car minimum weight was 2650, most cars were probably 3 to 4 hundred pounds underweight, or between 2250 to 2350. In the book "The modifieds of Lebanon Valley " there's a story about one of the track favorites having the tires filled with water. Funny thing was that guy raced against Jim in the sportsman class a few years before when Jim won opening night with a brand new car, but got protested after the race for weight. Even with a full tank of fuel, and the engine filled with oil until it was coming out of the valve covers, it was 37 pounds light. We were forever branded as cheaters!

      Jim wasn't a track favorite back then. But he was the first active driver to be enshrined in the New York State Stockcar Association hall of fame, and the Valley's as well back in the mid oughts. At the time he was the second winningest driver across the classes he raced in, and had the most 2nd place finishes by a huge margin, at about 250 seconds. Jim was not a crasher, and raced clean. Of course most of his 50 plus years racing he owned his own equipment. Thus wrecks were his own to repair. Makes a big difference when it's your own money and effort to get back to the track...
      When I was protested against, I love handing the protester the rules and say “show me where I am illegal”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Deaf Bob View Post

        When I was protested against, I love handing the protester the rules and say “show me where I am illegal”
        One of the interesting things about being a tech inspector - few of the racers seemed to be really familiar with the rule book. Generally, those who were familiar were REALLY familiar and I found I could work with those folks easily. But people would build a complete race car and seemingly read the book later if at all then they'd argue with the tech crew it an attempt to talk the car to legality. In LSR it's important (and cheaper and easier) to start with the book and pick a class then build to it. Simple in concept but sadly rarely done.

        Dan

        Comment


        • Originally posted by DanStokes View Post

          One of the interesting things about being a tech inspector - few of the racers seemed to be really familiar with the rule book. Generally, those who were familiar were REALLY familiar and I found I could work with those folks easily. But people would build a complete race car and seemingly read the book later if at all then they'd argue with the tech crew it an attempt to talk the car to legality. In LSR it's important (and cheaper and easier) to start with the book and pick a class then build to it. Simple in concept but sadly rarely done.

          Dan
          I've read that rule book. It's 3/4 inch thick. The Valley's rule book was the size of a file card, and maybe 8 pages, to cover 3 classes. So roughly 3 plus pages per class. Those were fun days, when the rules said things like minimum weight, maximum fuel load, engine displacement limit for injection and methanol, pump gas only unlimited displacement single 4 barrel. Oh and 20 gauge sheetmetal, but not what sheetmetal. Something we caused a change to the rules.

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          • It sounds melodramatic but truly the LSR rule book was written in blood. There would be some sort of incident then an investigation and then rules were adopted to try to prevent that from ever happening again. The pages involving class structure are pretty straightforward but the earlier pages are a tad confusing but they tried to put all the rules that apply to every car together in the front before the class-specific stuff. If you think the car rules are a handful go back to the MC classes! Pushrod vs OHC, streamlined, semi-streamlined, etc, etc. - it goes on forever but that's what the bike guys want. You wouldn't believe what constitutes a "sidecar"........

            Dan
            Last edited by DanStokes; January 27, 2022, 09:47 AM.

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            • "What constitutes a sidecar..."
              LOL

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              • Wasn't that some kind of drink in old Bogart movies?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by dave.g.in.gansevoort View Post
                  Wasn't that some kind of drink in old Bogart movies?
                  Yup.



                  Cognac, Orange liquor, and lemon juice.
                  Livin the dream

                  Comment


                  • Wish I could find a pic of an LSR side car - telling you, it's weird but they've all agreed on it. And yes, I would have to have a bunch of sidecars to run an LSR side car.

                    Dan
                    Last edited by DanStokes; January 27, 2022, 04:37 PM.

                    Comment


                    • I don't know the rule but I remember one side car was a flat piece of metal a wheel and a Chevy valve cover filled with lead. I asked the rider about it. He said it really changed the way the bike ride.

                      http://www.bangshift.com/forum/forum...-consolidation
                      1.54, 7.31 @ 94.14, 11.43 @ 118.95

                      PB 60' 1.49
                      ​​​​​​

                      Comment


                      • They should require a rider! Make it real...

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                        • The "Isle of Man" side car Rider.....
                          the Guy at the Bar ordering drinks with No Nose !!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Russell View Post
                            I don't know the rule but I remember one side car was a flat piece of metal a wheel and a Chevy valve cover filled with lead. I asked the rider about it. He said it really changed the way the bike ride.
                            That was Lawyer Tom's Hayabusa. Yep, that constitutes a "side car". And Dave, a agree that a monkey (that's what the person in the side car is called in road racing, I didn't make that up) should be required - but they don't.

                            Dan

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Captain View Post
                              The "Isle of Man" side car Rider.....
                              the Guy at the Bar ordering drinks with No Nose !!
                              Click image for larger version

Name:	sidecar-racing-2.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	107.8 KB
ID:	1313074


                              Here's the "Monkey" in a "Dust Bin" class

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Captain View Post

                                Click image for larger version

Name:	sidecar-racing-2.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	107.8 KB
ID:	1313074


                                Here's the "Monkey" in a "Dust Bin" class
                                That guy is nucking futs!

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