1969 c-10

[DanStokes]

Here in the Frozen Tundra, you can do your own Electrical Work on Old Structure as long as you Don't Upgrade the original circuit down leg...
i.e. add More outlets above the Electrical Code
or Exceed the Amp Load.
ALSO, if you have a Duplex, Side by Side, or Any Other RENTAL PROPERTY, A Licensed Electric Contractor has to do ANY work, even replacing a Outlet or Switch.

SO, You can Wire your own new Shop, and have the Inspector Approve IT, before you close up any Wall. Get a Building Permit!!
It will HELP YOU when it comes to Resell Time and the Lender Wants a Home Inspection Guy

For the shop I had to pull a homeowner's permit (as they call it) and have inspections, etc. but they didn't find much wrong. I think I had to have him come back once. For the generator the pro had to pull the permit and he saved me a pile of money as the inspector told me I'd have to replace the meter pan (huge $$) and some other things and our pro said "why can't we just....." and the inspector had to go along with it given that our pro was right. So sometimes a pro is worth it.

[Captain]

Here in the Frozen Tundra, you can do your own Electrical Work on Old Structure as long as you Don't Upgrade the original circuit down leg...
i.e. add More outlets above the Electrical Code
or Exceed the Amp Load.
ALSO, if you have a Duplex, Side by Side, or Any Other RENTAL PROPERTY, A Licensed Electric Contractor has to do ANY work, even replacing a Outlet or Switch.

SO, You can Wire your own new Shop, and have the Inspector Approve IT, before you close up any Wall. Get a Building Permit!!
It will HELP YOU when it comes to Resell Time and the Lender Wants a Home Inspection Guy

[DanStokes]

I've mostly done my own for years. I wired the shop myself (in conduit) as well as the shop in Ann Arbor and have added circuits here in the house as well. We did hire a licensed electrician to hook up the whole house generator as I don't want to go poking around in the meter box as you can wake up dead and no way for a Bozo like me to kill the power. I hired a licensed guy from Craig'slist and he was great. Under $1K including hand digging the trench and a nice guy to boot. IIRC, we tipped him $100 and well worth it. Russell - sorry your neighbor got "connected" with one of those other guys.

[Russell]

call me a cynic but people tend to change their stories to get the most shock from their listeners. Sometimes, the more compelling the story, the more likely the story has been polished....

in your story, I'm still not over the notion of "why didn't they just hire someone else?" because the answer to that question is "because everyone else was more expensive."

My understanding is he decided to do research how to do it himself, instead of asking for more quotes. I have been trying to tell him that electrical is not that bad.

[SuperBuickGuy]

If there should be a law it would be to disclose their min service charge. Change what ever you want I am all for free markets. I would like to be told when we will come check it out for $100 I don't touch a screw for less than a grand or more understanding of the price structure.

As the story was told to me no wire was to be pulled. Pulling wire the price jumps quickly.

call me a cynic but people tend to change their stories to get the most shock from their listeners. Sometimes, the more compelling the story, the more likely the story has been polished....

in your story, I'm still not over the notion of "why didn't they just hire someone else?" because the answer to that question is "because everyone else was more expensive."

[Russell]

Something about my day job... yeah.

Depends on where you are. Ask FGZ what 'reasonable' is.

Also depends on the job - "just" replace a plug and a breaker could include rewiring an entire house if said house is post and knob.

And finally, if those people are so out of line, then hire someone else.... I know, I know, there should be a law.... there isn't.

If there should be a law it would be to disclose their min service charge. Change what ever you want I am all for free markets. I would like to be told when we will come check it out for $100 I don't touch a screw for less than a grand or more understanding of the price structure.

As the story was told to me no wire was to be pulled. Pulling wire the price jumps quickly.

[SuperBuickGuy]

So Super Buick Guy expert in fast cars and all thing businesses. What is a fair price for a two man crew to replace two outlets and a breaker? What would you expect to pay?

Something about my day job... yeah.

Depends on where you are. Ask FGZ what 'reasonable' is.

Also depends on the job - "just" replace a plug and a breaker could include rewiring an entire house if said house is post and knob.

And finally, if those people are so out of line, then hire someone else.... I know, I know, there should be a law.... there isn't.

[silver_bullet]

This is why I generally do as much of every thing myself, using the savings to purchase tools and materials so I can learn myself….

[DirtyWhiteBoy]

I hope the repair works and he changes a few fee. So far I have been lucky enough not to need any of the Holley repair guys.

On a side note my neighbor had an electrician come to his house check a few things out and they wanted $3000 to change two outlets and a breaker

His latest video was my unit on the bench.
He said normal charge for this repair is $200 ish.
Hopefully nothing else is wrong once the regulator is replaced.

I agree, no matter what kind of fuzzy math you do, $3k to change a breaker and 2 outlets is insane. Surely there was something else involved.

[Russell]

you're missing the tax and overhead math. just because you pay someone $40 a hour does not mean it costs the business owner $40 a hour to do work. To that you have office staff, building costs, insurance, car insurance costs, health insurance costs which easily triple the cost of doing business. Just rough math - it costs me 50 cents of every dollar for just the support.... add a new computer, training, vacation, your idiot employee wrecked a car, 'shrink' - because that same employee goes out with your tools, supplies and truck then does work "on his own time".... who do you think pays for all of that?

I'm sorry, but that notion of 1000% markup isn't even close to true.

I love how you presume the work goes perfectly, what really happens is fantastic employees bill don't get produce income for 2 out of every 3 hours. Fantastic mean ones that only get lost occasionally, ones that rarely make mistakes (and who pays for the mistake? the employee? hardly), who bring the wrong part, have an emergency with their kid so that they cannot do the job (so the customer gets another company to cover for you).... then let's add in the inspectors who couldn't find their adze with both hands and a current CBC.

I'd love to live in your perfect universe, but my suggestion is a good start would be stopping with the lie that they're making anywhere near 1000%.... and we won't even go into what inflation did to a lot of companies.....

Mark up = variable cost plus materials times mark up equals price

The work I am in we pay our contractors based on salary + overhead + profit. It is typical we pay the expensive ones 200% over head.

I also understand the concept of "mobilization" it cost a lot to just show up, I think he said the check it out fee was $100 which sounds cheap (loss leader?) so I think they are screwing you once their foot is in the door.

Over head is what covers all the buildings, support staff, insurance etc.

I would say 50 cents on the dollar you are not doing that bad for support.

I am not saying that business is easy I know people that do very well for them selves, any time I think I could start something, I get well at this point I would have to hire someone help, and that takes all the wind out of my sails I don't want to supervise anyone ever again. I would rather be labor no management.

Most of those guys live very high on the hog and there is nothing wrong with that they have worked hard and earned it, but at what point does it cross the line to greed?

So someone that is scared of electricity or physically unstable to change an outlet get to cover the cost of pour management (shrink, getting lost, etc.)?

My 1000% (aka 10 times labor and materials) might be way off.

So Super Buick Guy expert in fast cars and all thing businesses. What is a fair price for a two man crew to replace two outlets and a breaker? What would you expect to pay?

[SuperBuickGuy]

I hope the repair works and he changes a few fee. So far I have been lucky enough not to need any of the Holley repair guys.

On a side note my neighbor had an electrician come to his house check a few things out and they wanted $3000 to change two outlets and a breaker

I guess those radio commercials are really expensive. Good thing I own a screwdriver and the Lowe's is not that far away. The guy doing the work makes $40 an hour. Say drive time and repair it takes two hours, parts say $25. Two man crew. The cost is $185 even if its $300. 1,000% markup???

Are they robbing people or I am the wrong business?

My dish washer stopped washing. I think I am going to buy a new one. I replaced the water valve it worked for another week then stopped again I would if the new valve is bad, the washer is frying them or is what controls the valve bad. I rather play in the shop than try to fix the dishwasher.

you're missing the tax and overhead math. just because you pay someone $40 a hour does not mean it costs the business owner $40 a hour to do work. To that you have office staff, building costs, insurance, car insurance costs, health insurance costs which easily triple the cost of doing business. Just rough math - it costs me 50 cents of every dollar for just the support.... add a new computer, training, vacation, your idiot employee wrecked a car, 'shrink' - because that same employee goes out with your tools, supplies and truck then does work "on his own time".... who do you think pays for all of that?

I'm sorry, but that notion of 1000% markup isn't even close to true.

I love how you presume the work goes perfectly, what really happens is fantastic employees bill don't get produce income for 2 out of every 3 hours. Fantastic mean ones that only get lost occasionally, ones that rarely make mistakes (and who pays for the mistake? the employee? hardly), who bring the wrong part, have an emergency with their kid so that they cannot do the job (so the customer gets another company to cover for you).... then let's add in the inspectors who couldn't find their adze with both hands and a current CBC.

I'd love to live in your perfect universe, but my suggestion is a good start would be stopping with the lie that they're making anywhere near 1000%.... and we won't even go into what inflation did to a lot of companies.....

[Russell]

I wish I knew more, but the EFI-digital tuning- ECU world is a place I have avoided until now.


On a possibly brighter note, my DEAD HOLLEY TERMINATOR ECU arrived in TX yesterday.
He tells me a part is on order, it should be repaired next week no thanks to Holley.

Russel tipped me off to a facebook group.
An electrical engineer named Billy Joe Waggoner has sone great videos with warnings and tips about the weak voltage spike protection in the Holley units and why they won't fix the problem.

I hope the repair works and he changes a few fee. So far I have been lucky enough not to need any of the Holley repair guys.

On a side note my neighbor had an electrician come to his house check a few things out and they wanted $3000 to change two outlets and a breaker

I guess those radio commercials are really expensive. Good thing I own a screwdriver and the Lowe's is not that far away. The guy doing the work makes $40 an hour. Say drive time and repair it takes two hours, parts say $25. Two man crew. The cost is $185 even if its $300. 1,000% markup???

Are they robbing people or I am the wrong business?

My dish washer stopped washing. I think I am going to buy a new one. I replaced the water valve it worked for another week then stopped again I would if the new valve is bad, the washer is frying them or is what controls the valve bad. I rather play in the shop than try to fix the dishwasher.

[DirtyWhiteBoy]

At the bottom of my list is to try to make a bench harness for the 411 on the shelf, and try to learn PCM Hammer or LS Droid. I believe that once you buy the 0BD2 to blue tooth. There are no other paywalls and you can make changes.

I am not sure if it's as good as HP tuners but think it does the sameish thing? Please correct me if I am wrong.

I wish I knew more, but the EFI-digital tuning- ECU world is a place I have avoided until now.


On a possibly brighter note, my DEAD HOLLEY TERMINATOR ECU arrived in TX yesterday.
He tells me a part is on order, it should be repaired next week no thanks to Holley.

Russel tipped me off to a facebook group.
An electrical engineer named Billy Joe Waggoner has sone great videos with warnings and tips about the weak voltage spike protection in the Holley units and why they won't fix the problem.

[Russell]

Thanks for the input! It looks like a lot of people are having lots of problems. My d.o.a. Terminator MAX unit is headed to Texas. We'll see.




Thank you!
I have the original harness, it's cut down. I just didn't like the crusty, brittle connectors.
I also wasn't thrilled with what little I saw with HP tuners. It seems more than likely, I'll have to buy and learn that next.
Time will tell.

At the bottom of my list is to try to make a bench harness for the 411 on the shelf, and try to learn PCM Hammer or LS Droid. I believe that once you buy the 0BD2 to blue tooth. There are no other paywalls and you can make changes.

I am not sure if it's as good as HP tuners but think it does the sameish thing? Please correct me if I am wrong.

[DirtyWhiteBoy]

the problem is they're all equally terrible. Why do you think I had FiTech on my Corvette and now Holley? The sniper system was better then the FiTech (added features) but I was having ignition trouble with that extra feature (ignition) when I swapped to the Terminator X. I swear I should write a book on my experience with the various manufacturers - and who knows, I might.... I've run pretty much all of them. The only 'hole' in my experience is Megasquirt - which is what I'm using to run the Buick wagon, so my thoughts on that one will happen eventually....

anyway, the point is had you bought something else, you'd have probably had trouble with them too....

Thanks for the input! It looks like a lot of people are having lots of problems. My d.o.a. Terminator MAX unit is headed to Texas. We'll see.

I had great results modifying a factory harness and changing the stock ECU programming. I have some resources I could dig up if you decide to go down that road.

Thank you!
I have the original harness, it's cut down. I just didn't like the crusty, brittle connectors.
I also wasn't thrilled with what little I saw with HP tuners. It seems more than likely, I'll have to buy and learn that next.
Time will tell.