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  • Re: In pursuit of a more badder asser van - 1974 Ford E-300 Club Wagon Chateau

    Originally posted by fahrenschnell
    Hey Mike,

    I do apologize for the ENORMOUS delay on the van, and hopefully I can help you understand the reasons for the delays and the accounting for the project.

    My client relationship is very important and I have apologized emphatically over the course of these delays, but I wanted to and still plan to make sure that held up to my end of the bargain by finishing the van at a high level of quality.

    I am very dedicated and determined to finish this van and to deliver to you a BADASS van that hauls ass. I am now finished moving and am putting everything else on hold until it is done.

    I apologize as a brother, friend, and Bangshifter. I will make sure that the end product is worth the headaches I have put you through.

    Seth
    Good morning, Seth!

    I have quoted you above just because I wanted to tell you that I feel your words above are just that - words. I do not feel you have been honest with me. For example, "I...am putting everything else on hold until it [the van] is done". Only in the short amount of time since you made this promise, you have steadfastly broken it by continuing to work on the FireCracker. It is painfully obvious to me now that you never intended to give my van the attention and quality it deserved. Perhaps you were incapable of doing a good job? I don't know but it looks like that is the case; I will show some pictures of what I mean in a moment. In any case, this issue runs much deeper than merely lack of competence, and if you knew you couldn't do the job as promised, why didn't you turn it over to someone who could?

    For over a year, you deceived me. You continued to ask for and extract vast sums of money from me without working on my van. I find it an interesting coincidence that you had time to work on the FireCracker, your Malibu, and start (and paint...) another project, the Kadett, all at the exact same time I was funneling huge sums of money to you. You never gave a thought to upholding your end of the bargain as far as the timeline was concerned, letting slip by several promised finish dates, for example the mid-May deadline you promised so I could have the van ready for my parent's golden anniversary surprise family get-together. Then you let slide another deadline of August 1. How long did you expect to drag out this project? This is another example of your lack of integrity. Additionally, the last two payments I made to you in February and March were specifically requested by you because you "needed more money" to buy parts (that I'd requested you buy at the very beginning), for example, the sway bars and disk brakes and transmission, as well as to pay Dave $900 to assemble the engine. So where are those parts that my money was supposed to be specifically allocated for? Why didn't Dave assemble the engine? Was it because you embezzled the money and didn't pay him? Or did he take the money and run?

    What about the money? You chose to ignore my previous post about the discrepancy in your own accounting. I had sent you $24,700 from September to March. $200 was a gift to you to buy a camera (which you did) for you to take pictures of my van (and send me high quality photos, which you did not). So that leaves $24,500. The van cost $3200, leaving $21,300. Items outside of the scope of the van might have come to $1500, leaving $19,800. Shipping for three medium boxes to Poland for $1100? I find that hard to believe, but if you provide receipts for that, I'll believe it. Anyway, supposing for the sake of argument that it is correct, that leaves $18,700. $800 for insurance and registration? For some reason I thought we'd discussed $300 for that, but be that as it may, leaves $17,900. The DSS shortblock cost $2000. Was shipping really $500? Do you have receipts for that? Anyway, that would leave $15,400. $6100 for other engine (exhaust and cooling system included) parts? I know parts can be expensive, but without receipts, it's hard to imagine that level of expenditures. That would leave $9300. Paint and body work supplies for $3000 - once again, please provide receipts. That leaves $6300 for "labor". Remember the discrepancy I mentioned of the $1000 you forgot to mention as well as the $1100 in labor you overcharged at $25/hr instead of $20/hr? That leaves $2200 you should owe me, even by your own calculations.

    So what did you do when I decided to pull the project from you? I realize this is a PM to me, but it is particularly relevant and I couldn't paraphrase better than you said it, so here goes:

    "I would appreciate being compensated for the hours that I have not yet been paid for. I have 120 hours or $2400 in the van that I have not recieved payment for and since I am not completing the van I will gladly settle for less than the standard rate to expedite the process. I feel that $1000 is a fair amount to properly close out our transactions. I will have the van ready for pickup by Saturday and can send the title and bill of sale as soon as tomorrow if you are in agreement. Thank you."

    So it appears that you were shaking me down for more money. What do we call this, extortion or blackmail? By your own calculations you owed me $2200, but you have the audacity to blackmail me for another $1000 so I could take delivery of the title to my van, and you would release my van to the shipper. What kind of treatment is this to a brother, friend, and fellow Bangshifter? Whatever happened to "the customer is always right" or "satisfaction guaranteed or your money back"? How do you sleep at night? Of course, though I paid the extra $1000 to get my van and title back, I did not agree to this extra charge and gave you a chance to make good on this aspect of our deal, by sending my brother a check for the any amount you thought was fair, but my brother received no money from you, which I take to mean that you think this kind of behavior is par for the course, and good service to boot!! By the way, the money I paid you for labor was contingent upon your doing a good quality job, as promised by you. I will have to have your work examined by the new builder to see exactly what kind of job you have done. So, how was I to get title to my own van without paying you another grand in ransom?

    My brother sent me a list of the contents of the package:

    - license plate, Michigan, with registration in Seth's name, expires May 2011
    - Car bill of sale, VIN #......., made out to me, for $50 (mileage is blank), Seth signed this
    - Michigan title, 1974 Ford Sta-wagon, same VIN #, filled in for sale to me for $50, mileage is blank, Seth signed this.
    - Sales receipt, diversified creations, 12/2/2009, $2795.05
    - sales recept, diversified creations, 11/24/2009, 136.69
    - sales receipt,, summit racing equipment, 1/15/10, no total, but several hundred dollars
    - sales receipt, summit, 3/11/10, about $500
    - receipt, GNE paint centers, 10/13/2009 $271
    - summit receipt, 11/17/09, about $700
    - summit receipt, 1/21/10, 6.95
    - receipt, performance line tool center, 9/25/09, $230
    - Autozone receipt, 10/20/09, $166

    This totals just over $5000, and I assume it does not include the short block for $2000, nor some engine parts. So we can safely say the parts here represent $7000 plus some additional amount I am not privy to.

    Now we can turn to the quality of the work that you promised, and what I see from pictures taken on location at Dave's shop prior to removal of the van, and at the new builder's location. First of all, you made a promise that there would be no rust on the van after you got done with it. Even in this thread when I asked if you had properly sealed the area around the gas tank, you assured me it had been done. So please explain to me why I see rust on the straps holding up the gas tank. How can this be properly repaired without removing the gas tank again and painting those straps?! How hard would it have been to paint the straps prior to installation of the van?



    The right rear corner sheetmetal is done incorrectly; you can see by the shadow that the line is far from straight near the bottom.



    Here are some pictures from the new builder. It appears that a lot of the stainless body trim is mangled. How in the hell did this happen? Even the very rare front hood piece which I had sent to you from California is twisted beyond redemption. How did this happen? It was in perfect condition when you received it. How did the other trim get so messed up? Do you have any idea how hard it is to find replacements for this trim?! The builder also noticed some shoddy workmanship, uneven welding lines in the patch panels, unfinished work along the bottom of the rocker panels, etc, ad. inf. This will have to be taken down to bare metal to see the extent of the damage, and repaired properly.

    rare but now mangled hood trim piece:







    rulers don't lie:













    Again, how much should I have to pay for the work you performed on my van? I gave you nearly $20,000 (not including the cost of the van itself or other items or shipping for them, etc) for labor and parts. How much should I have to pay for some shoddy bodywork (340 hours worth) and some new engine parts? Do you think this reflects positively on you, and other teams and communities you associate with? I don't have to be your friend (though I'm open to friendship with everyone till they do me wrong), but I do expect fairness and respect. Is this how you treat and respect people? Just wondering, though I have ample evidence in front of me from our year of working together. I wish you well, Seth, and will keep you in my prayers. Since you're an ordained minister, no doubt you will appreciate that.

    This project was supposed to be fun. It was supposed to be a way for me to provide my young sons with exposure to a cool van and the vanning experience. Unfortunately it has turned into the greatest and most expensive fiasco in my life. Thus, I have decided to christen the van with a new name, The Money Pit.
    President, Wicked Rides Poland

    http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showt...eau-Club-Wagon

    Comment


    • Re: The Money Pit - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

      Mike,

      1. Did you lose my email address? Surely any and all of this could have been addressed via e-mail.

      2. I didn't want to respond to this, but as you are questioning my integrity I will.

      3. PM stands for Private Message.....Not that I have anything to hide, but you seem to lack the tact to keep things private.

      4. In regards to the current state of the van.....YOU decided to let someone else finish it, and did not allow me to complete the bodywork that you are now showing pictures of as examples of incomplete work.

      5. My working on the Firecracker is not your business...Period

      6. I suppose the time I took to do the burnout in my Chevelle was also a violation of my promise....

      7. I never extorted money from you....you sent money for the van....i spent it on the van.

      8. On many occasions the scope, and subsequently the cost, of this van has increased and I tried to talk you out of most of those "improvements" but you were determined to have them....i.e....347 stroker instead of rebuilding the 302...Disc brakes.....Overdrive trans......a complete strip and repaint instead of a shootover....changing colors after paint was already paid for.....etc....These changes and their associated costs and losses are not my fault.

      9. If you have an issue with me fine, leave Dave and all others out of it.

      10. I did not blackmail you. I asked to be paid for the hours that I had worked, and you paid me. If you had said no, I still would have signed the van over. You obviously had no desire for me to finish it, so I made sure to get you the title and Van as quickly as I could. (2 days for the record)

      11. As far as the money....I have already explained that.....The shortblock was 2000 + the dampener + shipping= $2500

      12. Gas Tank straps.....really? I would have had to remove them when I undercoated the van....then I would have painted them and wrapped them in rubber.....Once again the van was not finished.

      13. The trim was all inside a pvc pipe to protect the pieces....it was all in good shape except for the corner piece which I was going to have repaired.

      14. I was paid for the time I invested in the van.....No more.....and I will also point out that I took $1400 off of labor charges in order to expedite the transfer of the van, and as an "apology" for the delays with the van.

      15. I have shown respect throughout all of this......You have not. By addressing your issues here instead of privately, you have shown absolutely no respect for me or yourself.

      16. I have shown my good character and integrity throughout this build and in my personal life while meeting and spending time with BS'ers throughout the US. I would hope that your ramblings and accusations have not tainted any of those relationships as that would be the greatest loss of all.

      17. You have obviously been a bit paranoid about this van for quite a while, as I have now found that you have been PM'ing other BS'ers about me rather than just calling me...or PM'ing me....or E-mailing me. You even asked a few of them to do driveby's at my old house to make sure the van was still there.....LONG before any of this.

      I am done with this. Our business with each other is over. Please show me and the rest of the BS members a little respect and stop. You have my contact info if you feel the need to further discuss.

      Seth



      200 mph or bust.......

      Comment


      • Re: The Money Pit - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

        You're right, Seth. I'm sorry. It's all my fault and you are the victim here. Please forgive me. I promise it won't happen again.

        You must think I'm a real idiot. You're the one who refused to pick up the phone or call me back or respond to my emails for months and months on end. Now after shunning me for months on end, and despite public and private pleas from your friends for you to follow through on your promises or at least contact me, you suddenly want everything to remain behind closed doors, swept up under the rug. Well, I'm sorry your nationwide stellar reputation is now being questioned around the globe. I tried my best to protect you for so long, hoping you'd take the high road. But now for lack of any other alternatives, the cat is out of the bag. The show has gone public. Do you think people who issue security clearances would approve of your record?

        And you're delusional if you think it's none of my business what you're doing with my money. And it is absolutely my business what you do with your time (including working on the Red Hot Racing Team and on your personal projects) if you have given me your word. Does your word mean anything to you at all? I have given you countless opportunites to redeem yourself. Your claim that you would have released title to my van if I'd simply asked is beyond belief; and that's why I gave you the chance to send my brother back a check with any amount of money you felt was fair. Did you send him back any money? No. So your claim is completely without merit.

        I gave you the business because I wanted to help you. I trusted you. I believed you had the skills, integrity and dedication to perform the tasks you contracted to do. I actually believed you were a man of your word. As far as Dave is concerned, I asked you a simple question: did you pay him for the engine assembly as we agreed, and for which I gave you money, or not? Why is the sound of silence echoing around these halls with such a deafening roar? I realize this is your sandbox and I've come as a newbie looking for help with my build and upset all your plans. So sorry for that. But I ask you once again, do you think your behavior will reflect positively on those with whom you associate? Don't you ever think of how your actions will affect the people around you?

        Once again, I'm sorry I troubled you with the $25 grand. It's my fault that I expected something in return. And I'm sorry for your grief. This is not easy for me, so please forgive me.
        President, Wicked Rides Poland

        http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showt...eau-Club-Wagon

        Comment


        • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

          Ugh, well that sucks. I hope you can get your Van completed how you want it & quick

          Comment


          • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

            Hey Yo, how's it going, I have a question, you said Seth shipped you three boxes, who did he use to send them to you??

            I ship stuff to BlackOutSteve all the time and he is in Australia, I usually use USPS for shipping and have never paid more than $200 to ship a box to him and that was a box that weighed almost 70lbs and was just under their size limits. Anyway let me know who he used to ship the boxes to you and what the weight and size of each box was and I can tell you how much shipping should have been. You can get shipping quotes from all the major shipping companies at their websites.

            As for you Seth, if you got nothing to hide, then bust out with the receipts and show this man were his money went.

            I have to agree with Yo that some of your pricing just doesn't add up.

            Comment


            • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

              Don't get in the middle, this already too public, IMO.

              Comment


              • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

                Originally posted by min301
                Don't get in the middle, this already too public, IMO.
                Hey I'm just trying to be a good member here and help fellow members out. If the shipping quote is close to what Seth said it was then at least it'll put Yo's mind at rest about that.

                Bill I'm not picking sides, just trying to help two people settle their differences.

                Comment


                • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

                  Good question, TC, and it's an issue I've been struggling with myself because it seems way out of line with reality to have paid $1100 for three medium sized boxes shipped via USPS. I've already tried to make an inventory of what was inside in my mind's eye, but the boxes weren't outlandishly heavy, something like 20 lbs each? I can't see them costing more than about $100- 150 each? I had two body bushing kits for my Montes, a slide hammer kit, some wheel bearings to fix one 8.5" 10 bolt axle, and an axle rebuild kit (not needed- Seth sent me the wrong parts). And there were a few tiny bottles of posi fluid, and about 3 lbs worth of collectible bars and a box to house them in. I think I may have kept the boxes in the attic and will try to dig them out in the hopes they have the postage listed on them still.
                  President, Wicked Rides Poland

                  http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showt...eau-Club-Wagon

                  Comment


                  • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon



                    Comment


                    • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

                      Originally posted by yogreasygramma
                      Good question, TC, and it's an issue I've been struggling with myself because it seems way out of line with reality to have paid $1100 for three medium sized boxes shipped via USPS. I've already tried to make an inventory of what was inside in my mind's eye, but the boxes weren't outlandishly heavy, something like 20 lbs each? I can't see them costing more than about $100- 150 each? I had two body bushing kits for my Montes, a slide hammer kit, some wheel bearings to fix one 8.5" 10 bolt axle, and an axle rebuild kit (not needed- Seth sent me the wrong parts). And there were a few tiny bottles of posi fluid, and about 3 lbs worth of collectible bars and a box to house them in. I think I may have kept the boxes in the attic and will try to dig them out in the hopes they have the postage listed on them still.
                      Ya if he used USPS there would be a postage stamp on the box. And I just checked, a 20 lb box to Poland in a 20x20x20 box cost $96.25 to ship. Also it seems that the heavies and biggest box you can send would be 40lbs in a 20x20x20 box and that would cost $171.25. Also both these quotes are for International Priority Mail which is 6-10 days for delivery.

                      This link is for a 20lb package


                      This one is for a 40lb package

                      Comment


                      • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

                        Jezus TC, must you stir the shit pot every chance you get?
                        If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

                        Comment


                        • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

                          I haven't kept up on this thread in a while and I have to say that I'm sorry you two guys couldn't work it out. It's not my place to get involved and I have no right make judgements one way or the other. I'm just a bit let down that two Bang Shifters didn't end their deal in a happy middle ground.
                          BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

                          Resident Instigator

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

                            Originally posted by JOES66FURY2
                            Jezus TC, must you stir the shit pot every chance you get?
                            I'm just helping a fellow member out that might not known that he could get the shipping quotes that way.

                            And if I was going to stir the pot, I would have posted a hell of a lot more than just shipping quotes. ;)

                            Anyway I hope you two can work this out, it would definitely be the manly thing to do........

                            Comment


                            • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

                              Originally posted by Rebeldryver
                              I haven't kept up on this thread in a while and I have to say that I'm sorry you two guys couldn't work it out. It's not my place to get involved and I have no right make judgements one way or the other. I'm just a bit let down that two Bang Shifters didn't end their deal in a happy middle ground.
                              Thanks, Scott. And I agree that the whole situation is lamentable. I really expected the high road to be taken by the other party(ies) involved.
                              President, Wicked Rides Poland

                              http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showt...eau-Club-Wagon

                              Comment


                              • Re: "Redemption" - 1974 Ford E300 Chateau Club Wagon

                                Originally posted by min301
                                Don't get in the middle, this already too public, IMO.
                                Bill, (and this goes for Joe66Fury too) I don't understand your attitude to this problem. How can it be too public, unless you're in favor of covering up all manner of fraud? Do you really want to be counted among those who want to suppress the truth? Do you think the community's interests are better served by a complete blackout on this issue, or would it be better for people to know what's going on? Why would you want to ostracize TC for questioning Seth's figures? Why the silence from all but a few when gross injustice has been committed? I have laid out to the best of my ability the facts in the case, and it all adds up to one huge cluster$&@%. My brother has $5100 in receipts (some of which might include the items outside the scope of the van, thus further skewing the figures to Seth's disadvantage), plus we don't know how many of the parts bought were incorrect (some of the parts bought for my Montes were incorrect, and the $600 spent on cooling parts is also wasted because the parts are incorrect). Plus $2500 for the engine. So I can see $7000 spent on parts for my van (no other receipts exist, though some other parts were bought, but unfortunately I have no idea how much was spent - Seth's figure of an additional $4500, or less; in any case no receipts have been presented). There is a disconnect here of magnificent proportions. And yes, it is fraud. Mail fraud, for example, is a federal offense. A felony no matter which way you cut it. And why should I pay over $10 grand for Seth's labor when I will have to redo everything he did? The $1100 figure for postage is laughable. None of what I've brought to the attention of people here has been (or can be) defended with any degree of reason. Maybe you all have merely glanced at my posts, not caring enough to read them thoroughly, or process the damning evidence contained therein. Is it because the perpetrator of the crimes is some kind of Annointed One or member of a protected syndicate? Is he to not be held accountable for his crimes? Are we operating in some kind virtual Jonestown and everyone is so addicted to the Kool-Aid that they are oblivious to truth or basic human decency? Or maybe this is 1984 and good is bad and bad is good, and a contract is not a contract; a man's word is meaningless and it's OK to siphon an endless amount of money from the client regardless of how unacceptable the job is performed? I do not intend to rehash what I've already written in previous posts; you need merely take the time to read them with an open mind and then see if you're more interested in sweeping the whole mess up under the rug, or demand what's right from the guilty parties.
                                President, Wicked Rides Poland

                                http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showt...eau-Club-Wagon

                                Comment

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