Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

[STINEY]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy



;D

[tardis454]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

YAY!!!! :D

[STINEY]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

They are on the way. I hit the threads quick with the wire wheel, they look good. Didn't do the whole stud but they should clean up nicely.

[tardis454]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

Today I took the rest of the motor apart & found some bad cam bearings & a light score mark in the crank.
It appears this case has never been apart, it's a virgin. I suppose that would mean stock everything?
See measurements below...



The front & rear cam bearings cracked & delaminated, center bearing was fine... hmmm





It didn't hurt the cam, the journals are all in great shape.



Broke out the mics & telescoping gauges & measured the case journals.



Do these measurements look right STINEY?



I'll prolly end up buying a CW crank for it after seeing that score mark. 8)
The case looks good otherwise. What do you guys think?

[STINEY]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

My memory is saying those are Standard sized mains, at least on the one measurement. Remember, you have oversizes on both the ID and the OD for the bearings. I don't have my books with me so you might want to verify those sizes....

Never seen a cam bearing look like that. Doesn't scare me though, VW ran the cam straight in the case bore with no bearing for years, the cam bearings are a design refinement for longetivity. Pop some new cam bearings in and you are good. All cam bearings are the same size.

Do you have a picture of the crank scoring?

Be careful buying replacement crankshafts, lots of cast ones out there, and in my experience THE CAST ONES ARE JUNK! They may be fine for the first thousand miles.....but if you want your rebuild to last more than that spring for the good cranks. Lots of the cheap rebuilt longblocks use the cheap cranks too, so beware.

On a VW the crankshaft is the foundation of the engine, the case just wraps around it, so if you have a "flexy" cast crank then the whole thing is "flexy" and there is no lifespan to the whole kaboodle. You use a good forged crank, and you can beat the tar out of the thing, use a cast one and walk on eggshells.

Make sure the Gland nut threads are good in any new crank you may buy. Also check with the gland nut you will be using, to make sure the nut will thread in sufficiently, there are some bum nuts and some bum cranks out there. They allow you to torque the nut down to specs, but are actually bottoming out and not "clamping" the flywheel like they need to. Some of the gland nut threads are cut slightly off spec too, they thread in a little tightly. Just things to be aware of and watch out for.

[mustang13]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

Stiney, is that commom for Vdub cam bearings to do that?

[STINEY]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

I would have to say no - it looks more like an acid type reaction from the oil due to prolonged sitting.

[tardis454]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

My memory is saying those are Standard sized mains, at least on the one measurement. Remember, you have oversizes on both the ID and the OD for the bearings. I don't have my books with me so you might want to verify those sizes....

Yes, the mains appear to be standard(2.5582-2.5598, 2.5602 limit). I did not torque the case before taking the measuring.
That's why it measures tight in the center & loose at the flywheel. The line bores are still concentric (.0002-.0004).
The crank journals measure 2.155(.010 under), & this is on a replacement AS case! ;D

Do you have a picture of the crank scoring?

I couldn't get a good pic of the scoring, but It looks like it would polish out no problem.
Seeing that I'm this far into the motor I might as well invest in a better crank.

Be careful buying replacement crankshafts, lots of cast ones out there, and in my experience THE CAST ONES ARE JUNK! They may be fine for the first thousand miles.....but if you want your rebuild to last more than that spring for the good cranks. Lots of the cheap rebuilt longblocks use the cheap cranks too, so beware..........

Make sure the Gland nut threads are good in any new crank you may buy. Also check with the gland nut you will be using, to make sure the nut will thread in sufficiently, there are some bum nuts and some bum cranks out there.........

I've read a lot about cranks, & the consensus is china cw'd cranks are junk.
Everyone says get a DPR Machine Shop German counterweighted crank.
They weld knife edge throws onto German cranks & they're good to 5,500 rpm. ;D
They are cheap too $175+freight. They sell cams, connecting rods, flywheels...

As for the gland nut, mine is in great shape, but I'm gonna opt for a chromoly 36mm one...
http://www.kustom1warehouse.net/Prod...tCode=GLANDNUT



This is what I'm building(specs):

1641 Single Port
87mm slip-in jug kit (AA or Mahle, haven't decided)
Counterweighted crank (from DPR Machine)
Mexican 311 heads, 3 angle grind (Mofoco is rebuilding my cores as we speak)
Holley Bugspray 210(300cfm)
Engle or equivalent W-100 grind cam, 28mm lifters
Stock pushrods & rockers(might spring for solid rocker shafts)
Stock oil cooler & tin
009 distributor(might use 010 I have on old motor)
CB Performance 30mm Maxi-pump 2 (aka oil pump w/integral filter)

Those are the specs I want, but I have a few questions STINEY...

*On the 69mm counterweighted crank, does the case need relief cuts for it to fit?
I looked for pics of one in a case but couldn't tell if there were relief cuts..

*When you build a motor do you send your crank/flywheel/clutch, etc... out for balancing?

*I've heard good stuff about AA jug kits, & of course Mahle, what do you use?

[STINEY]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy


In my experience, the stock non-counterweighted crank is good to 5500-6000 rpm. Its the factory retainer clips that cannot hang at that rpm, so definitely get solid rocker shafts if you'll be in that range. My 1641 I rebuilt in 1992 is still going strong, its on its 4th buggy now. 041 heads (they were new hot stuff at the time) Engle 110 crank, dual 40mm Kadrons, stock crank/rods/pushrods/rockers, 009 dist, melling cast iron high volume pump, full-flowed case, stock doghouse cooler/shroud, type III lower cooling tins, Mahle 87s, stock flywheel, factory gland nut. It will keep pulling enough to bury a buggy with good STU comp-cut paddles, doesn't run out of power but doesn't spin them like a 2180 will! Delivers much better mileage though....mine does 30+ mpg with a lead foot.

No relief cutting needed for a 69 stroke crank, even with counterweights. At least not on the ones I've seen.

Never sent those pieces out for balancing as a unit. They are all individually neutral balanced, good enough for me.

I like Mahle stuff. Never messed with AA though, to be fair. Wash those cylinders and pistons out very well with good degreasers, a buddy roached 2 sets of pistons/cyllinders before he would believe me that packing fluid isn't a good break in lube. :o

[tardis454]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

In my experience, the stock non-counterweighted crank is good to 5500-6000 rpm. Its the factory retainer clips that cannot hang at that rpm, so definitely get solid rocker shafts if you'll be in that range. My 1641 I rebuilt in 1992 is still going strong, its on its 4th buggy now. 041 heads (they were new hot stuff at the time) Engle 110 crank, dual 40mm Kadrons, stock crank/rods/pushrods/rockers, 009 dist, melling cast iron high volume pump, full-flowed case, stock doghouse cooler/shroud, type III lower cooling tins, Mahle 87s, stock flywheel, factory gland nut. It will keep pulling enough to bury a buggy with good STU comp-cut paddles, doesn't run out of power but doesn't spin them like a 2180 will! Delivers much better mileage though....mine does 30+ mpg with a lead foot.

No relief cutting needed for a 69 stroke crank, even with counterweights. At least not on the ones I've seen.

Never sent those pieces out for balancing as a unit. They are all individually neutral balanced, good enough for me.

I like Mahle stuff. Never messed with AA though, to be fair. Wash those cylinders and pistons out very well with good degreasers, a buddy roached 2 sets of pistons/cyllinders before he would believe me that packing fluid isn't a good break in lube. :o

I'm going to use a non-doghouse shroud, some people say it's fine, others say it runs too hot.
Dad-In-Law ran a non-doghouse in the buggy for 37yrs & didn't seem to have an issue.
I know it sounds funny (with a VW) but I'm trying to save cash where I can on this thing.
If I buy a doghouse shroud it'll add another $200-$300 to the build cost...
What do you think about non-doghouse Vs. doghouse coolers?

[STINEY]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

I think the VW factory engineers knew what they were doing, and either set-up is fine - - if used as intended.

If you check the years and HP ratings, when they stepped up the power they also stepped up the cooling capacity.

I'd run a standard cooler and housing even on a high hp modified engine, as long as it was in a open bodied vehicle like ours. No way I'd run that same combination in a stock full-bodied sedan.

Its all about balance and actual useage. Just keep an eye on your valve adjustments (read as actually DO them, every 1500 miles or at least every 3000) and you'll be fine. If you see #3 exhaust valve constantly getting tight and needing the clearance opened up, then you have a cooling problem. Eventually it will get stretched too much and will drop the head of the valve, and that's bad.

I like to just find TDC on each cylinder when the engine is stone cold, as in sitting overnight stone cold. Intake open, intake close, TDC and set both intake and exhaust on that cylinder - then move to the next. Another buddy tries to take shortcuts so he can set more at once, tells me I'm doing it the hard way. But then again, he works on his a lot more than I do, seems to pop and sputter more than actually run. I'll stick to my slow methods..... ;)

[tardis454]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

Got some parts back from sandblasting. Still waiting on the other valve cover & a few misc items.
Tomorrow all of these pieces will get a few coats of Rustoleum Flat Black & Hammered Finish Black. :c)



I Duraglassed the vent tube patches, they turned out good.

[tardis454]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

Finished painting the tinwork, everything turned out pretty damn good. :cD





Thor is not amused. :3



The air tube patches turned out better than I expected.



Painted the cylinder studs.




Roy@Mofoco emailed & says my heads are ready. Woo!!! :D
Did some engine parts shopping over the weekend...
It was a toss up between Brother's Machine Shop & DPR Machine,... Decided to go with Brother's for this build.
I'm gonna build a 1776 with the old motor, & will go with DPR on the next build.

[Scott Liggett]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

It was gorgeous today here and and I saw an old school four seater dune buggy with a bikini top cruising today. I was so envious.

[JOES66FURY]

Re: Wifes Citation II Dune Buggy

saw a cool Manx today too..wouldnt mind having one.