Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

I admit it... I like those motors - maybe I should power the Camaro with one

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

Been done before, don't use an SBC as a guide of if it will fit. If a BBC will fit, a Turbo6 will. They are wide wide motors and definitely take up more room side to side than the old Nailhead did.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

Been busy and the normal too busy to take pictures while I went. I've cobbled the cooling system back together using Lowes' 1.5in sink parts as splices for a chopped to bits 88-93 C1500 V6 truck lower hose to get it to snake around the wastegate plumbing that wasn't there before. Got my upper AN-20 hose fixed but pulling the spring out of an Autozone 1.25in flex hose and somehow snaking it into the AN hose through the straight end. No kinks! I then spliced the powersteering feed line together using 5/8in hose and a brass splice so it would stop leaking!!! I got the radiator filled and the fan mounted in. I also fited braces so my intake doesn't flop about or hit the hood with all the silicone adapters in it.

The list of mechanical things is pretty short now, fill in the rest of the nose of the car so air only goes through the radiator, mount the shifter and plug the hole in the floor pan around the cable, fab and mount the screens on the back of the coolers to protect them, and get a junk R4 compressor pad to block the back of the compressor up. The wiring on the otherhand hasn't shrunk. Still need to wire the fan relays, splice the front and rear harnesses together, and deadend and/or tuck away the unused wiring. If things go well this week, I might be trying the computer tuning out next weekend with my father and try to start it!!

[mopar57]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

Excellent project, can't wait to see it come to life.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

Busy busy busy!!! I've been working on it and with the baby, if I'm going to be productive it takes me getting to work and blasting through it so no pictures though I bet I'll take some tomorrow to show the progress.
I went ahead and wrapped up mo7st of the exhaust the last week in June but didn't have a chance to weld up the middle section and when I did this weekend I ran out of gas so $30 went to the very friendly and really cool local (and I do mean local mom and pop type) muffler shop. Turns out the guy at the store has an L67 3800 out of his old 97 Grand Prix GTP in a Toyota truck with a Dodge bellhousing on the stock Toyota transmission. We discussed tuning the L67 computer using the 2 major software packages out there and he offered to take a look at my tune if I brought it by and he knew I was coming. Got it on the car today and after searching for 10min I found my last band clamp and got it bolted together permanently and pull the jacks out. Looks good though I might put another hanger on it.

I modified an old (I do mean old) B&M Megashifter to fit through the stock console opening and converted the car to a shifter cable. Since the original unit was rod operated I was left with a rather large hole in the floor where the shift rod went through. Fabbed me up a block off plate and drilled a new hole in the floor pan for a 3/8in grommet that fit the shift cable perfectly to seal it up.

Electrical has been my largest occupation recently. The Riviera has 12V in constant hot and Run/Acc, the Regal harness wants Run/Acc/Start power too. To make this I took a pair of relays and wired them to the Starter signal and a Run/Acc power tap. Unfortunately I didn't check the power supply to the switched side of the relays and that came back to bite me later. The control side works like a charm. I also spent a huge amount of time wiring in various power taps and cleaning up other wiring under the dash. It still looks like a huge rats nest but it's a lot better than it was. Most of the wires I either knew but didn't want to use or couldn't identify and therefore eliminate I just wrapped in tape and pushed up under the dash.

With this all done I started my get "preflight checklist" of testing.
1. Connect both battery cables and see if any fuses let go
Connected them up and with my father standing by in welding gloves we started checking fuses and for smoke being let out of the wires. Everything was good, interior lights came on, windows rolled up and down, everything was great! Then I pulled the headlights and the tail light fuse let go. We spent 2hrs removing bulbs, ohming the wires, testing the switch, unplugging body harness connections and it still popped the fuse each time. Tried a new switch and it still blew so we moved on because it wasn't a simple fix.
2. Test the Run/Acc power
Worked great, wipers immediately parked themselves, the turn signals came on just like they were supposed to and the radio even worked! The gauges showed exactly what I was expecting and the parking brake indicator worked when I pushed the pedal. The first mystery was some of my warning lights came on that I don't think were supposed to. One I couldn't prove that it was working properly so I just unplugged it (high temp warning light, I've got a gauge). The other was the CEL and I'm not sure what's going on since the computer was unplugged so I just left it alone. The second mystery was why the reverse lights were on in park, in fact they were on in everything but Reverse so I swore I had the wrong switch on the shifter and wired in a 5 pin relay to reverse the polarity. More on how that was too much wiring and not enough thinking later.
3. Prime the oil pump and check the oil cooler for leaks and the pressure gauge
Pump primed and the gauge showed 50psi with the drill on low speed so that was great! Till I spotted oil pouring out of the oil cooler! Neither of the fittings had sealed to the cooler and it took 2 tries to get them to seal up since these stupid Long Tru-Cools gall so easily with aluminum fittings. Once they sealed up and we were happy there were no other leaks we moved on.
4. Crank engine over with no computer to check starter alignment and wiring
With the remote solenoid and that extra power feed I wanted to check it out without the pressure of the engine starting. Turned the key and the relay clicked but no start. Remember the weird reverse lights..... I wired the neutral safety switch into the reverse lights and the starter into the reverse lights switch. Fixed the starter but have to correct the reverse lights later... DOH!!! Turned over like a champ and everything was great.
5. Set Cam Sensor
Turned the engine over by hand to the 25deg ATDC and pulled the cap (now realizing it's 180 out, belatedly) and checked it for alignment. The LED on the cap didn't come on, should have been my first clue something was amiss.
6. Install computer and download the stock tune
Error... What? you think something is on the end of the cable?
Nothing, computer wasn't getting power and was still dormant. No wonder the cam sensor LED didn't come on! Remember that wire that I assumed had constant 12Vs on it? Nope, dead and I need to wire it into a source and put a source onto the relay bank. Oh well, the cam sensor is wrong anyway and the transmission leaked a quarter of ATF out of the pan gasket onto the floor overnight. This week's list is short but pretty important stuff, will update as I check it off.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

you're fast... each one of your bullet points would have taken me a month to diagnosis and fix....

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

Well I'm resuscitating this thread!

Since I last posted a lot has happened, not so much with the car but with everything else
It ran long enough to get it on a trailer and off again when it got here
I've moved from TN to CO
It has no oil pressure!!!

Well I called a pow wow of my few car buddies in C-Springs and got the engine and transmission out of the car in a very long afternoon. We think we knew why the oil pressure was zero so I'm halfway through correcting that problem. Basically it comes down to leaks at the hose ends where they attach to the cooler (the hose ends aren't tight enough), the pressure regulator piston not seating on the filter adapter, and the bolts holding the backing plate on the gerotor pump were loose.
Over the last week I pulled the front cover off to inspect the pieces and correct the problem. I was missing a bolthole on the block for the later model lower timing cover section so I made a drill guide out of painters tape on the drill bit and used the cover as a guide to put the hole in the right spot. When I pulled the gerotor pump apart I noticed that the bolts were barely finger tight and the cover had some embedded aluminum particles. I cleaned the cover and the rotors up and reassembled it packed with petroleum jelly and lockt-tight the bolts down. To fix the problem with the pressure regulator piston not seating I got rid of my ghetto rigged homemade one and used my mill to slice down a stock oil pump adapter then drilled and tapped it for an AN fitting. I'm waiting to hit the Lowes tomorrow to pickup another bolt for the new hole then I'll put the front cover and oil pan back on. The hose ends I'll deal with when I put the engine back in.

Other issues the car has that I need to fix but currently have work arounds for.
The fuel pump won't come on with the computer. I need to trace the harness again but I think I might have an open connection that's supposed to be wired into a resistor or the VATS is keeping it off. I've put a switch on the rear mounted relay that lets me manually turn it on when I need it. Will keep looking for that one.

Timing table is way off. The first time I let it run for 5min or so the manifolds started glowing when I was cycling it around 2000-3500rpm in neutral. I used a table from an NA 3.8L with the same heads but it's not working well. I'm going to go back to the L67 supercharged table since it's conservative enough for boost even when I'm not running it yet.

Tach signal isn't coming into the scanner or the tach in the dash. I think the computer problem is that I thought I had a Regal harness when I cut the tach wire off of the coil pack and put it directly into the tach on the dash. The Regal ECM calculates the tach internally for the dash tach while the Grand Prix ECM is dependent on the external feed from the ICM. Best guess is that the tach is somehow also shorting out my tail lights since the dash and tail lights share a fuse.

Brakes are crap. No idea here but will get a friend to help with bleeding them this time so we never let the master cylinder run dry and can open and close the bleeders instead of relying on a fluid head in a one man bleeder.

After fixing these I could theoretically go on Power Tour but there are a few more things I want to do before then. Namely switch to a Sanden compressor and relocate the engine as far back as possible to give more room for turbo plumbing. Get said AC system working. Convert to disk brakes in the front since I don't want to put any more money in the drums. Swap rear axle for an 8.5in 10-bolt, with 9C1 B-body wheels it's a wash on the track width and I should be able to keep the stock wheel covers. Finally if I can swing it, install my 4L80E and wire it into the L67 PCM with a polarity inversion on a solenoid and reprogram the tables to run properly.

If you have any questions about how I solved problems listed in my last post, fire away!

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

Keep at it!

[horsewidower]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

Are you sure the timing table is off, or are you overfueling? Did you check it with a timing light?

We just started an engine that had 36pph injectors stock, with a set of 72pph injectors. The headers were glowing bright orange within 5 minutes. Timing wasn't the issue.

Keep us up to date.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

Are you sure the timing table is off, or are you overfueling? Did you check it with a timing light?

We just started an engine that had 36pph injectors stock, with a set of 72pph injectors. The headers were glowing bright orange within 5 minutes. Timing wasn't the issue.

Keep us up to date.

Stock L67 injectors with the stock L67 tables. Only things I changed were the timing tables, MAF table for the LQ4 MAF, and set the rev limiter at 5000rpm. I did disable a bunch of the emissions modifiers such as EGR and torque limiting features so it should be running straight table.
The timing of the new table was less than the L67 but I chalked it up to the advance of the 3800 Series II/III cylinder head over the old 8445's.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Project Franken-Riviera -1964 Buick Riviera-

Put it all back together today! Everything went back together smoothly and I was more careful this time about the amount of Aviation Form-a-Gasket I used so it didn't ooze all over everything.

I'm going to see if I can get another pow wow to put it back in and test fire it sometime later this month if I can. Should go easier than taking it out I hope.

[CTX-SLPR]

Well after working my butt off to get done with my Masters degree to save my Air Force career (not in a promotion sense, but in a survive the RIF sense) since Christmas timeframe. I can now start piddling with the car again though I'm spending more family time and my wife's family is in from India for a few weeks so that'll cut down on the amount of work time I have to spend on it.

Picked up a Geo metro AC compressor and Astro hydroboost system from the local junkyard and am starting to get them cleaned and mocked up. The Geo compressor isn't ideal in stock form since it's a PV4 pulley but still a Sanden SD7B10 compressor so I can do some of the mockup with it and a 4 rib belt while I order a new PV6 pulley'd compressor.
I'm trying to get it ready for the Drag Week convoy from Denver to Topeka so I've got a minimum list to work out.
1. Install the Sanden compressor since virtually everything else is dependent on it to do
2. Install the Astro Hydroboost since the old booster is shot, I'm also putting a 96 Impala SS master cylinder on it and a Wilwood adjustable prop valve since I need to convert from a single circiut to dual circuit brakes anyway.
3. Build the brackets to hold the calipers onto my spindles for the 73-87 HD C10 rotors and R32 Skyline caliper brake combo.
4. Redo the fuel pump wiring since the computer won't turn it on and I can hear the relay clicking so I think I've got the right security settings.
5. Redo the power steering remote reserviour hose so it'll not be a cludge of rubber and braided line that leaks.

Optional stuff:
Move the engine as far back as I can with the new AC compressor clearing the suspension
Install my 4L80E transmission and wire it up to the 4T65E controller with a solenoid polarity flip and some table reprogramming
Install a 8.5in 10-bolt rear axle with 3.42's in place of the 3.23 stocker with a modern rear drum setup.
Build a new upper plenum using an LT1 throttlebody to increase hood clearance and balance air distribution in the lower bathtub ram plenum.

Of course I'm leaving out installing the interior and cleaning up some of the wiring under the hood but those are givens.

Let the fun times begin, I'm headed out to start clearing space to work in the garage!

[SpiderGearsMan]

get a powermaster electric booster from an estate wagon

[SpiderGearsMan]

hydroboost leaks all the time and is not the most responsive

[SuperBuickGuy]

two months to get that done.... wow. I'm cheering for you - that's an impressive list.