Serenity

[98ciHemi]

So, it's official. Dad and I are building a plane. The plans are in hand, and the construction will begin soon, though the first step will be putting together a build table to lay out and weld the fuselage on. It's not a car, but given that it should be capable of moving at 170+ mph, fully aerobatic, and loud enough to wake the neighbors I think that it'll probably qualify as a hotrod.

The plans we have are for a Sonerai 2LS. It is a tandem seat plane based on a old pylon race plane. Power will be provided from some kind of VW flat four, though we have a long way to go before we worry about that.

[Barry Donovan]

hey this is awesome.



if it takes a vw it can also take a couple of versions of subaru.

[98ciHemi]

It is heavily suggested that you stay with the VW engine unless you are an experienced builder. The Subaru engine would add a lot of weight and complexity with the reduction drive and cooling system, whereas the VW is air cooled and designed to run at less than 4000 rpm. Nerd points to anyone who gets the name of the project thread.

[Scott Liggett]

The VW boxer is similar to air cooled opposed cylinder four bangers that powered Cesna's for decades. Though, any air craft engine would cost a mint over the VW bug engine.

How does a carb do with a plane pulling g forces?

[98ciHemi]

The VW was originally designed for usage in unmanned target drones, or so I was told. (I can't find any evidence to substantiate that). The carbs do fine with positive Gs, but holding negative G loading or inverted flight for any period will result in a deafening silence and prayer from the pilot that there is enough altitude to gain enough airspeed to turn over the engine for restart since it has no starter.

When it is flyable I don't see myself doing a ton of aerobatic stuff. The main perks for the sonerai is that it can fit two people, cruise at 140-150 mph, and burn about 5 gallons of 93 octane fuel and hour. (a lot better deal than the $4.80 for 100LL)

Since Dad and I will be the builders, we will be able to perform all of the annual inspections and work to the plane. For perspective, Dad's Tomahawk is a basic plane and costs about $75 an hour to fly. The Sonerai will cost about $25.

[Mater]

It is heavily suggested that you stay with the VW engine unless you are an experienced builder. The Subaru engine would add a lot of weight and complexity with the reduction drive and cooling system, whereas the VW is air cooled and designed to run at less than 4000 rpm. Nerd points to anyone who gets the name of the project thread.

name of the ship from firefly and later the movie serenity?

[Mater]

how hard would it be to add an electric starter?

i am not the most keen on flying to begin with but with out a way to start it if it did stall does not help that LOL

[98ciHemi]

And Mater gets the nerd points. :D

It's not a big deal, just something to think about. I've never had an in-flight engine failure but my understanding is that the prop never stops spinning. I have seen planes lose power inverted and they just flipped over and the engine restarted. My concern is with the small high speed prop it may take a little more speed to turn it over. There are provisions to add an Electric starter but it adds weight and complexity. Without the starter you eliminate the weight if the starter, accessory housing, heavy duty battery cables, and all the associated wires and switches. All told the plane is supposed to weigh less than 550 lbs without pilot and fuel, so every pound counts. As is the engines typically weigh in at about 160 lbs fully dressed, so that leaves you 490 lbs for the whole rest of the aircraft.

[Mater]

ahh i see

never relised how light they where

[rightpedal]

Cool deal Walt!

You got to dump the spare change out of your pockets on some of the VW kits just to get them off the ground. What about a small Lico 4. Maybe a little more cash up front but a lot more motor. Its been a while since I played with this stuff. Can you use decommissioned or non cert motors (think gpu) on the experimental stuff?

Steve

[TheSilverBuick]

I'll be watching this. I want to build a plane someday too. Not so much a high speed one, but more of a commuter type, I've seen a few 4-seater kits. My Buick burns about 5 gallons an hour on the highway, and the planes I was looking at, at the time, were 5-6 gal/hr but cruising much faster and covering more distance.

[Bamfster]

Completely BS approved Walt!!! I'm a huge aviation fan, but know very little about the systems and such. I'll be tuned into this one for sure.

[DanStokes]

I'd PM Scott and see what it would take to build a reliable basic EFI system for it. They'll work upside-down just fine. Might need a revised oiling system, though. But maybe the weight puts all that off the proverbial table. I'll be looking for you to fly into Wilmington (either NC or Ohio) to join us.

Stiney might have a spare engine........

Have fun
Dan

[SuperBuickGuy]

airplane motors are expensive because they're certified to do things car engines are never certified to do (i.e. carb de-icing systems, ability to run and maintain lube at negative or inverted situations, etc). I understand you want to save weight with no starter or battery, but as the lithium ion batteries are so light; I wonder if you're doing a false economy (saving money where you shouldn't).

I know several people who have built their own airplanes, and I guess the bugger is getting them certified for all flight conditions... something to consider.

that said, this is fully a BS approved deal.... and maybe impetus for next (after current) project....

[dieselgeek]

I'd PM Scott and see what it would take to build a reliable basic EFI system for it. They'll work upside-down just fine. Might need a revised oiling system, though. But maybe the weight puts all that off the proverbial table. I'll be looking for you to fly into Wilmington (either NC or Ohio) to join us.

Stiney might have a spare engine........

Have fun
Dan

I've done EFI for a few raceplanes but that's it. Walt's right on target with his approach here, IMO. The goal of an aircraft like this is reliabilty via simplicity. The VWs are well sorted for this type of application, 80-100hp. Although VWs have higher compression and a shorter prop (running at higher RPM), they don't like to windmill like the larger prop, lower RPM continentals and lycomings will.

Walt can you stick an O-200 on a Sonerai? is the Sonerai designed by the Monett family, same ones who do the Sonex now?

Walt's gonna get good with a gas/wirefeed welding setup :-)