Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Green SandRail gets some attention

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Green SandRail gets some attention

    You have all seen my avatar for years now......... and a few pictures here and there.

    I've been fortunate enough to have been able to beat mercilessly on the Green SandRail year after year with minimal maintenance. Wash sand off, change oil, wash sand off, change blown out shocks, wash sand offl, bleed brakes, wash sand off, new brake shoes, wash sand off.

    You know, basic stuff.

    Well, the lower rear transmission mounting that I home-brewed finally showed a weak point. All four studs gave up the ghost - one snapped off, two stipped threads completely, and one is MIA. No idea what causes this?

    Babying it sucks. Not babying it would suck worse, so I babyied it the last few days in the sand, and have been comtemplating if I needed to reengineer the mount or just repair it. It has held up fine for 7 years of abuse, so I've decided to repair and roll.

    Then how to repair?
    Do it "right", complete transaxle tear down and inserts?

    Complete tear down and larger studs?

    Weld it up and stock size studs?


    Or listen to my inner child (who has taken me this far after all) and drill the blind holes all the way through and just use bolts/nuts to secure the mount plate?

    After all, I can retighten bolts/nuts "on the trail". Another stud failure leaves me wounded again. Not cool.

    So first thing first. Pull engine, pull halfshafts, pull transaxle. This took about an hour.



    The hoist makes it a bit easier to weasel the complete engine assembly on the floor jack out from under the rear cage/frame. Drop engine, raise frame, roll engine out.



    Here are the four culprits. The transaxle is upside down in this picture, the 4 holes towards the top of the picture are the ones with pulled threads/broken studs.



    And here is the backside of those 4 holes. See the bumps in the casting? I think I can manage to make room for a bolt head (or nut) without getting into the oil cavity inside.



    Here's a shot of how this all goes together. Plate on right bolts to transaxle, plate on left bolts to frame horns (green). Bolt through nylon roller connects the two and allows a small amount of deflection.







    And just a couple of shots of the disemboweled Rail.



    Last edited by STINEY; July 28, 2016, 08:16 AM.
    Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

  • #2
    I'd drill and make larger diameter bolts with fine thread.
    Escaped on a technicality.

    Comment


    • #3
      Or, make a bracket that mounts from a different area of the trans...

      http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic....4076&view=next

      Comment


      • #4
        don't mount motors or transmissions on anything but rubber? Uh, Stiney, I believe that was your advice to someone else

        I also note the nice bit under the differential where it appears large chunks of sand flew up and bounced off the case (you said you drove it like grandma, so I'm sure you never landed on that case or high centered it).

        I think you're right about putting bolts through, but I'd mount that entire structure on rubber then use a spring-loaded shock like the roundy-round guys use to control the movement of their differential. Otherwise, the next thing that will break will be those flanges - because for the bolts to break, the case and the motor had to be moving independently of each other.
        Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; July 31, 2012, 09:50 AM.
        Doing it all wrong since 1966

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post
          don't mount motors or transmissions on anything but rubber? Uh, Stiney, I believe that was your advice to someone else

          I also note the nice bit under the differential where it appears large chunks of sand flew up and bounced off the case (you said you drove it like grandma, so I'm sure you never landed on that case or high centered it).

          I think you're right about putting bolts through, but I'd mount that entire structure on rubber then use a spring-loaded shock like the roundy-round guys use to control the movement of their differential. Otherwise, the next thing that will break will be those flanges - because for the bolts to break, the case and the motor had to be moving independently of each other.
          My disclaimer is that I never stated that I strictly follow my own advice. You notice I purposefully did NOT show the front transaxle mount? Hehehe.... maybe John won't see this thread?



          My only defense is that these chassis are a completely different design than a front engine/rear drive layout, and drivetrain movement is also different. The IRS design also plays a role. The nosecone (which houses the shifter input) is the traditional weak spot on these, and I limited the rear movement to try to save the nosecone. The rear is solid for all intents and purposes (or was until the studs let go). This winter I plan to completely tear down the Rail and give it some love and a real paintjob, and might rethink the drivetrain mounting at that time. Seriously though, solid mounting the whole works is the norm for this style of machine. Doesn't mean its right though.

          The engine to transaxle case mounting never loosened. I'd like to see the roundy-round shock thing you are thinking of?

          I'm pretty sure the driver is at fault. It takes some tricky footwork to pull the front, and a really harsh clutch.



          We don't wait for large chunks to find us - we forgo all that jazz and go straight to dipping the whole engine and trans as deep as possible and dragging them as long as possible. The sand we ride in is overall very loose and soft, but there is the occassional hidden tree stump. I clipped one of those with my pushrod tubes a few years ago, yikes! Didn't get into the pushrod itself, but did tear a chunk from the tube. Some fancy work with pliers, screwdrivers, and a tube of silicone let me run the rest of the trip. And a oil change. I'm sure I scooped a fair amount of sand into the engine sump.

          Speaking of which, its only a matter of time before I clean the sump right off the engine. Bound to happen someday.




          Highcentering? Nah......never happen.

          Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

          Comment


          • #6
            [QUOTE=tardis454;666420]Or, make a bracket that mounts from a different area of the trans...

            http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic....4076&view=next

            [/QUOTE]

            I was thinking of adding "ears" to the bracket that bolts to the transaxle, and tying into the bellhousing with those drilled pads like this.




            Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

            Comment


            • #7
              yep, as I suspected, hoonage on sand

              here's the bit I'm talking about
              Click image for larger version

Name:	PTK-Roller-Bearing-CO-Eliminator.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	7.7 KB
ID:	863483
              http://www.daymotorsports.com/prodpi...Eliminator.jpg

              normally it's used to keep the torque from overpowering the amount of traction available by allowing the differential to rotate a bit before it hits the stop (there's a spring normally contained between those two plates). I think in your case, a similar device could be made to give you some give without taking away from WOT hoonage. Mount that hard mount in rubber and allow the motor to rotate against a spring.... thus you're not trying to find the weak point in the system every time you hit the throttle
              Doing it all wrong since 1966

              Comment


              • #8
                Nope never saw this thread.
                There's always something new to learn.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by STINEY View Post
                  I was thinking of adding "ears" to the bracket that bolts to the transaxle, and tying into the bellhousing with those drilled pads like this.


                  I liked this idea because it hold the trans in more than 1 spot with more than 4 bolts..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What are you thinking for the rear mount Tardis?


                    When I redo things, I'm likely going to lose the factory frame horns. They are getting in my way. When that happens, I'll be using an intermediate mount like you show, and a much simpler rear mount. I really want to clean things up and lose some more weight....1260# is kinda porky!
                    Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by STINEY View Post
                      What are you thinking for the rear mount Tardis?


                      When I redo things, I'm likely going to lose the factory frame horns. They are getting in my way. When that happens, I'll be using an intermediate mount like you show, and a much simpler rear mount. I really want to clean things up and lose some more weight....1260# is kinda porky!
                      Maybe a plate that holds the trans via the bell housing bolts?



                      Everything is solid mount, ^^^Those clamp kits just clamp the trans down, no rubber or bushings to speak of.. But I know that you already know what's out there STINEY

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ^^^^^ that's just funny right there, why not use nylon ratchet straps? ;-)
                        There's always something new to learn.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by milner351 View Post
                          ^^^^^ that's just funny right there, why not use nylon ratchet straps? ;-)
                          Yea, I'm not a fan of that set-up, that's for sure!
                          But that's hot roddin, take something never meant to go fast & make it scream.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yuuuuuuuuup!
                            There's always something new to learn.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              so with my great in-depth knowledge of VW's, I'll toss this out for your consideration. The front tire looks flat. Hope this helps.
                              Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X