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440 '48 Plymouth Coupe

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  • SuperBuickGuy
    replied
    depending on the set up, a coil sprung rear end moves laterally as well as vertically.... the only exception that I can think of is a coil sprung IRS on C4/C5 corvettes

    I'm in a discussion on a different forum as to whether or not that rear steering is actually beneficial (after all, as long as the turning is predictable, having the rear help with the direction change is a good thing).

    and my opinion on the leaf spring doesn't change with the location of the box nor whether or not it's cross steered. Cross steering helps, but it doesn't solve the problem.
    Last edited by SuperBuickGuy; September 12, 2012, 09:08 AM.

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  • 1946Austin
    replied
    A coil spring unsupported can indeed twist in any direction, but A arms and parallel arms in the rear keep them from twisting, or doing anything except compressing straight down. Some of the issues with coil rear suspension is the bushings used in most factory coil setups that allow the arms to move laterally when the rubber gets old and worn out. With new bushings, or bushings of polyurethane, the coils wont have side deflection like worn rubber does.

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  • Huskinhano
    replied
    Originally posted by Deaf Bob View Post
    Huskinhano posted: For instance did you know leaf spring act as anti roll bar? If you ever notice, rear leaf spring cars typically don't run a rear anti roll bar while coil sprung cars run a nice beefy one

    I have a t-bird rear bar on the back of my 57 Chevy Sedan Delivery. Best thing I ever done.. I can get my hand flat between fender lip and tire.. Can hit corners real fast and have NO RUBBING..
    Alot of dualies/camper haulers have sway bars .. Be surprised how much they help.. Am going to put one on my Suburban as well. That thing sways so much whomever rides with me feels like puking.. Except when I have a full tank of gas...
    I said typically. When the body rolls and the axle is not parallel to body, the leaf springs are getting twisted length wise, much like a torsion bar. This effect tends to act much like a rear bar. Coil springs on the other hand can't locate anything and easily twist in any direction. You will see rear leaf cars with roll bars but compared to a rear with coil springs, the coil sprung car is going to have a much bigger bar. On the Mustang forum I hang out on, all the guys who road race do not run rear bars because it'll make the car swap ends. When it goes, it goes!

    You can read up on the topic here. http://www.amazon.com/Stock-Car-Setu...rds=bob+bolles

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  • racingsnake440
    replied
    Great score on the front end! I had an Econoline axle under my '47.

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  • 1946Austin
    replied
    That 440 should move your car along with ease! Should be a real tire burner!
    I just got home from picking up another straight axle! Found an Econoline axle complete with springs and all the shackles, etc. on CL for $100! It's got new brake drums, new tie rod ends, new Bendix brake shoes and wheel cylinders, new brake line hoses, and even new kingpin kits, all in the boxes still! Now I just gotta find another project to stuff a straight axle under! LOL
    Last edited by 1946Austin; September 10, 2012, 05:03 PM.

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  • racingsnake440
    replied
    Originally posted by Bully View Post
    Keep at it Nick looking good.
    (we fixed the tranny on my 48 yesterday,the filter was clogged solid.Cleaned it out,fresh fliud and its good to go)

    As an aside,my take on the shackle discussion,for what its worth.If you have a steering box behind the axle,then front shackles,as there is less movement on the rear section of the spring,keeping it more in sync with your steering rod/drag link(for want of a better name).If you have a front mounted box,then the same principal applies and the shackles should be at the rear.If you have cross steer then i dont see as it makes any difference!!Just my opinion of course,as has been stated,it seems to work both ways,but i would put the shackles the same end as the box.
    Mark
    Thanks Mark! Good to hear you got your '48 sorted.

    Your point about having the fixed end at the same end as the steering box if using traditional steering is another reason I put the shackles up front, as I was originally thinking of running the steering box back by the firewall with a drag link going forwards. I'm planning on cross steering it now so it probably doesn't really matter that much.

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  • racingsnake440
    replied
    Originally posted by Scott Liggett View Post
    That thing should haul butt even if the 440 is kept near stock.
    I hope so Scott! The 440 is one I pulled out of an old Ramcharger, it's got a steel crank, Edelbrock Torker and sounds like a mild cam too but don't really know any details. Should be enough to be fun anyway.

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  • Bully
    replied
    Keep at it Nick looking good.
    (we fixed the tranny on my 48 yesterday,the filter was clogged solid.Cleaned it out,fresh fliud and its good to go)

    As an aside,my take on the shackle discussion,for what its worth.If you have a steering box behind the axle,then front shackles,as there is less movement on the rear section of the spring,keeping it more in sync with your steering rod/drag link(for want of a better name).If you have a front mounted box,then the same principal applies and the shackles should be at the rear.If you have cross steer then i dont see as it makes any difference!!Just my opinion of course,as has been stated,it seems to work both ways,but i would put the shackles the same end as the box.
    Mark

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  • 1946Austin
    replied
    Leaf spring cars don't run anti sway bars?
    Most leaf spring cars that aren't performance rated wont run swaybars, but almost every performance car Detroit ever built with leaf springs came factory with a swaybar. All the Z28, SS, and RS 1st-2nd gen Camaros had factory swaybars and leafs. As did the other pony cars.
    There are less performance cars running rear leafs today, as coils or coil over setups with trailing arms have become more prevalent, as have independent rear axles that don't work well with leafs.
    Like Deafbob, I have swaybars front and rear of my '69 Suburban and it corners really flat.
    Last edited by 1946Austin; September 9, 2012, 08:32 AM.

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  • Deaf Bob
    replied
    Huskinhano posted: For instance did you know leaf spring act as anti roll bar? If you ever notice, rear leaf spring cars typically don't run a rear anti roll bar while coil sprung cars run a nice beefy one

    I have a t-bird rear bar on the back of my 57 Chevy Sedan Delivery. Best thing I ever done.. I can get my hand flat between fender lip and tire.. Can hit corners real fast and have NO RUBBING..
    Alot of dualies/camper haulers have sway bars .. Be surprised how much they help.. Am going to put one on my Suburban as well. That thing sways so much whomever rides with me feels like puking.. Except when I have a full tank of gas...

    Leave a comment:


  • 1946Austin
    replied
    Originally posted by SuperBuickGuy View Post
    Chevrolet trucks have the reverse. It's a choice, but given a preference, I'd always put them in the back.... of course, how arched the spring makes a huge difference. On my landcruisers, the difference was above 60 mph - of course, a stock land cruiser (FJ40) can't do 60 - but the difference was substantial. With the shackle on the front, the distance from the front of the spring to the axle can change. That change, in essence, changes your wheelbase on one side only - thus your car goes the direction of the spring that has the most deflection. On a smooth dragstrip, it should never make a difference, but on streets - it really can get to be a handful, especially if you have a super short wheelbase. In short, you got lucky my friend

    A lot of people leave the front shackle because you can do a shackle lift on the front without causing terrible driveshaft angles. Because most shackles are made of stronger steel and boxed, you actually get better handling then before.... still, the shackle should always be to the back.
    The newer Chevy trucks might have rear shackles, but all the early Chevy trucks through the 50's used front shackles. Also all; the big major chassis builders use front shackles. Here's Jim Meyers Chassis setup:
    Last edited by 1946Austin; September 8, 2012, 04:31 PM.

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  • Huskinhano
    replied
    I'm not a suspension expert by any means. I'm in the process of doing some suspension work on my 66 Mustang. Before I statered I bought a book on the topic. It's interesting on how much a simple thing can do. For instance did you know leaf spring act as anti roll bar? If you ever notice, rear leaf spring cars typically don't run a rear anti roll bar while coil sprung cars run a nice beefy one? On the Mustang site I hang out on the road race guys don't run a rear bar. And as it's been mention as leaf springs compress, they grow in length. The OEMs took advantage of this as a cheap rear steer to make a car turn sharper.

    I'm siding with you on putting the shackles in front. The reason is the fact that the leaf will "grow" as it's compressed. I'm thinking this will increase caster and keep the car more stable while braking or turning. Ford also used cross steer on the solid axle fronts to reduce bump steer back in the day.

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  • Scott Liggett
    replied
    That thing should haul butt even if the 440 is kept near stock.

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  • racingsnake440
    replied
    Originally posted by zombie289 View Post
    Looking good Nick, You've come quite a ways since we hacked the firewall out the way...
    Cheers mate - it's getting there.

    Regarding the shackles, I've had a couple of older trucks and Land Rovers with shackles at the front and they all drove ok. Interesting that running the shackles at the back improved the ride on Jeeps - I may try that on a future project but I think the weight of the 440 should help soften the ride on this one.

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  • zombie289
    replied
    Looking good Nick, You've come quite a ways since we hacked the firewall out the way...

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