mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

OK, another lead.
One up a couple hours away in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. AKA, in Da' U-P eh(Think Fargo :D).

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Starting to get frustrated.
Ok, actually I'm not getting frustrated, I AM frustrated.
I call the guy with the 401 in the UP and he already has it sold... Fu@k!
I should have called the guy as soon as I saw the craigslist add at 8:00 AM yesterday, taken the day off, and imediately hit the road heading north with cash.
I usually take searching for parts in stride, it is only a hobby after all, and I have a very nice running 343 in the car, but I can't help getting a little aggrivted.

[mlcraven]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Patience Grasshopper. It shall be found.

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

mlcraven, you where right on the money with that comment. When things are meant to be it all works out.

You guys ain't gonna believe this.
So I'm searching high and low on craigslist for a 401 core, ready to go pretty much anywhere within a 5 hour drive one way (or more for a good deal).
I did notice that if searching for AMC parts, they are occasionally listed only as "Jeep parts" and may have no text related to "AMC" or
"American motors". 8)
So I search for "Jeep 401" and hit a listing for a Cherokee 4x4 with the last line of the add mentioning he has a verity of other parts including bla, bla, bla, Built 401, Hmmm? ???
I email and finally talk to the seller.
He calls and explains he had run Jeeps in mud bog events years ago, and this motor is what's remaining. It has Keith Black 13:1 pistons, custom high-volume oil pump, ported iron heads, roller rockers, 850 Double-Pumper carb, Torker intake. The motor was used for two seasons, has low hours but obviously most of those hours were likely full-throttle.

Yada, yada, yada, I looked at it tonight, it is dirty on the outside but from what I can see the inside looks great. I put money down on it and I'll be picking it up next week. Oh, and by the way, it was located 20 minutes from where I work!

I can't wait to find out what's inside this old grungy motor. ;)
I'll supply pictures as I go.

[SuperBuickGuy]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

excellent find! I love people who don't list correctly, gives me a chance to get some great deals..... so, now what? what are your plans for this motor - 13:1 seems a bit unstreetable.

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

excellent find! I love people who don't list correctly, gives me a chance to get some great deals..... so, now what? what are your plans for this motor - 13:1 seems a bit unstreetable.

Good question, not sure but I now have a motor with forged internals and capacity for 4-bolt mains I now have a motor that can rev past 6,000 rpm. :D
As fun as it would be to have that kind of CR and its matching cam, that's not real practical :, and a street car that can't be driven on pump gas is foolish.... I do like foolishness from time to time however :D.
At the moment I'm thinking about building a motor around this comp-cam Big Mutha' Thumpr or something similar. But certainly open to other suggestions.
http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...csid=1449&sb=0
Something somewhat radical that can run on 93 octane fuel with 10:1 CR? ??? I'm also planning on Eddy heads and an air gap (or Eddy FI if the funds are available).

Oh and another interesting part it comes with, a Mallory dual point AMC distributor! Seriously cool unit?. But points :o ???

[mlcraven]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Mike: that's really great news. V happy for you. Of course, next to firing it up for the first time, the best part of an engine build is planning it and knowing it's for real, not some fantasy build.

I have only two suggestions:

1 - resist the temptation to cut corners, you'll never thank yourself after the fact, and

2 - go with a roller instead of flat tappet cam (I'm still kicking myself for having chosen the latter).

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Mike: that's really great news. V happy for you. Of course, next to firing it up for the first time, the best part of an engine build is planning it and knowing it's for real, not some fantasy build.

I have only two suggestions:

1 - resist the temptation to cut corners, you'll never thank yourself after the fact, and

2 - go with a roller instead of flat tappet cam (I'm still kicking myself for having chosen the latter).

Cut corners, now way. ;) I have a target for this of >450 HP at the crank. I have a fine running 343 in the car so I'm in no rush and plan to have this motor in the car spring of 2011, over a year and a half out.
No one makes a hyd. roller for an AMC that I can find ??? and the solid roller cams out there are a little to high strung for what I want.
It seems the best cam manufacturer out there is Comp-Cams, but as always I am open to suggestions ;)

[cantvalve16]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Check out Camshaft Innovations out of Michigan. If he can get a cam blank for the cam, he can make whatever you want. He is a cam designer. You tell him what you want out of the combo, he will deliver as well as help dispel myths about what you might have heard. Great to talk with on the phone. Very knowledgeable.

[milner351]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

EXCELLENT!

that's flippin sweet!

I can't wait to see this thing taken apart.

keep in mind a good machinist can take the domes off a set of pistons to make them more streetable
- been there done that.

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

I was just tearing into the motor and everything looks great so far. ;D
The carb is a 700 DP, a little small for a big HP application but likely a good starting point. I'll clean it up, rebuild it and throw it on my 343 next fall just to see what that's like :D

The roller rockers are Harland Sharp units and are in great shape. The heads look good but unfortunately they are the lower compression (larger combustion chamber '73 heads - 57.92cc ). Had they been the one year only '70 dogleg heads with the smaller combustion chamber (50.6cc) I would have thrown them on my 343. The heads are in great shape but I am planning on Edelbrock heads, so I'm not sure what I am going to do with these? Maybe clean 'em up, paint 'em AMC blue, and throw them on Ebay?

The block looks great with zero ridge at the top of the cylinder bore, so a quick hone ought to clean that up- yeah!
The seller guessed the compression ration to be 13:1 but the pistons are not domed at all so I think the compression is much less, which may be close to what I want (10:1-ish), so maybe I can use these pistons if in fact they are forged units. I will try to figure out compression w/these pistons and Edelbrock heads with 54cc chambers before I pull the block appart. ???

It also has a custom made high volume oil pump, you can see a 3/4inch spacer at the end of where the pump is where the housing and gears were made longer. I'll retain that if I can.

Not sure what to do with my new Accel daul-point dizy. Maybe throw it on the 343 that's in the car, it's probably better then the stock single points that are in there now : :D Two are always better than one right?

[milner351]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

I bet crane accel and pertronix all make a conversion kit to make that dual point into an electronic trigger....

points work when nothing else will fit - but the best place for them in my book is a museum.

Sounds like you've got a great foundation to build from - hopefully you can find a part number on those pistons so you can figure out just what they are.

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Me and my little helper started to dig into the 401 yesterday. We even had a few beverages while we were out there. :D

Man these things are stout around the crank!
I need to buy or borrow a tool to pull of the balancer, so I can get the front cover off. Then I can start to remove the pistons, rods, and crank.
I can see that the pistons are actually Ross pieces, and have a number cast into the bottom 'ROSS 412F'. I will shoot them an email to see if they can tell me how many cc's the dish in the piston is.
Check out this oil pump mod that was done.

Pulled it apart.

Two sets of gears were used to fabricate a longer impeller, and an aluminum spacer made fit it into the housing. I think I'll retain this modification, higher oil volume can't hurt right. ???
At this point I want to get this pulled down and have the block and crank checked out. Then it will probably sit for a while... BUt... Engine builders are pretty slow so maybe I'll get started right away and it may take two years to get it done anyway. :P
I'm not sure where to take it yet either?

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

I know zip about the amc engine series. Oil Pump question. What are the odds/chances that the HV oil pump adapter was made to use Buick HV pump gears? Buick HV gears are a 1/4 inch longer than stock gears. How long are those gears? When you get that cover off can I request a picture of the backside of the timing cover? How I envy your indoor work space

[mike343sharpstick]

Re: mike343sharpstick's 69 Javelin project

Pulled the motor down to the crank/block. Didn?t see anything bad yet, the rod journals on the crank look good, one has a small area of discoloration which I think will polish out, the rest of it looks perfect.

The skirt of the pistons are not the greatest, so I will not be re-using them, and will likely go with aftermarket rods too.
I?ll pull the crank out tonight, and get the block out for cleaning, magnifluxing, new cam bearings, and a good hone. Hopefully that?s all that will be required for the block.

Then there is the rotating parts, this is where things get expensive and confusing :-\
I think I?m going to give notable AMC builder Barry Allen race engines a call to see if I can work with him to some extent and do this right. He is a bit far away from me to just give him the entire engine, but if he can possibly get me on the path to a good combination that would be a huge step in the right direction, eliminating wasted time and money in do-overs.