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The Silver Buick's 1969 Firebird OHC six project.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Scott Liggett View Post
    Ooooool. Pretty colors.
    Yes, pretty colors....that don't go together! ;)

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    • #62
      Progress.....need some video of motor running
      Thom

      "The object is to keep your balls on the table and knock everybody else's off..."

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Monk View Post
        Progress.....need some video of motor running
        That's going to be a while out. I need to fabricate up an intake at least for the EFI. I can't bring myself to drill injector bungs into the stock 4bbl manifold. I'll probably weld together an engine run stand to start it out with. As it sits now there are no gaskets installed or any bolts in the head holding it to the block, etc.
        Escaped on a technicality.

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        • #64
          I would put a couple bolts in just so it cant get bumped off.
          BS'er formally known as Rebeldryver

          Resident Instigator

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          • #65
            Manifold Modification

            Originally posted by TheSilverBuick View Post
            I can't bring myself to drill injector bungs into the stock 4bbl manifold.
            They are not as rare as you may think. Intakes are available all over the country, either as sets with the exhaust or on 1-Bbl motors where someone gave up on the Sprint conversion. Shipping cost is usually more than you'll pay for the manifold.

            Of course, you can also drill into a Clifford aluminum one, or make a spacer plate from 1" flat which has the singular function of adapting the injectors. There are no dedicated bolt holes for the intake manifold (they are all shared with the exhaust) so you might need to be creative in your mounting scheme. You're already drilling and tapping into your head, so another 4 to 6 holes shouldn't be such a big deal.

            It might be a good exercise, anyway, since you'll have to mock up a new water neck. Even the 1969 configuration - which does away with the bypass adapter - might still interfere with injectors on the #1 runner.

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            • #66
              I've noticed the issue with the thermostat housing that may require sub-optimal angle of the injector(s). I've thought about moving all the injectors upstream a bit and try and lay them over at a steeper angle, but run into issues running into the carburetor. You may of seen pictures of one mock up I did running a fuel rail with two injector pairs then steel tubing, that way cylinders 1 & 2 could be laid over a bit to clear the thermostat housing, then 3 & 4 more upright to clear the carb, then 5 & 6 like 1 & 2. Definately a sub-optimal lay out though.

              One advantage to using the stock manifold would be I'd finally be able to try out a carb for a cheap throttle body Another flipside is I may be able to sell the modified intake to someone else that may want to tackle an EFI OHC project (especially if I have proven it runs and works). I'll put this option back on the plate.

              I like the idea of a spacer for the injectors, simply cut the intake portions of the flange out of 1" aluminum, but the mounting I can see being an issue as you state. All the methods I can think of off the top of my head expose the aluminum to high exhaust temperatures. As long as the aluminum doesn't melt (like heads and intake cross overs metallurgy?) expanding the 1" intake flange over the exhaust manifold and notch the aluminum for the exhaust manifold to fit under it and run the bolt through the spacer and into the original hole in the head.
              38P likes this.
              Escaped on a technicality.

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              • #67
                If you're worried about thermal expansion causing the exhaust to leak, because I am, why not use a chunk of iron/steel to make the spacer. It may weigh twice as much as the aluminum one, but if you get a really talented welder you could weld the current manifold to the spacer directly.

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                • #68
                  after watching a carburetor work and seeing / listening / reading the "injector angle" poo on the info-mercial-net, I've decided that the idea is to get a charge of fuel and air into the cylinder, shut the damn valve, and go BOOOOM.

                  When I ask about why injectors high up the runner make more horsepower, I get answers, but I can't tell why.

                  Suddenly I'm reminded of that ratty ass 5.3 powered Fairmont - Parish? DG, what was his name? He used to hang out here a bit. Anyway, my favorite quote "Is it straight?" ... "I don't know, does it really matter that much?"

                  That car hauled ass for cheap and I don't think it knew or cared that it was a total bastard.
                  Flying south, with a flock of bird dogs.

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                  • #69
                    ^^^^^ What Beags said.

                    I got a lot more done before I was smart enough to know what was impossible.

                    Fortune favors the foolish maybe? Or don't let perfect get in the way of done?
                    Last edited by STINEY; December 5th, 2012, 04:37 PM.
                    Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Beagle View Post
                      That car hauled ass for cheap and I don't think it knew or cared that it was a total bastard.
                      Maybe you've seen that Randal has this thing about documenting everything with a camera. Until that motor hauls ass, it's going to get criticized for everything that "looks" funny. He's going through the school of TLAR engineering now.

                      But you're probably right, as long as the air and fuel make it into the cylinder together in the right proportions, it's going to run better than average.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by William Wilson View Post
                        If you're worried about thermal expansion causing the exhaust to leak, because I am, why not use a chunk of iron/steel to make the spacer.
                        The way the loads are shared by the intake and the exhaust bolts & studs, the differential expansion will actually cause the exhaust side to clamp tighter. I know that sounds backwards, but if you see the look closely at the studs, nuts & washers they used to hold both pieces on, this will make sense.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by STINEY View Post
                          I got a lot more done before I was smart enough to know what was impossible.

                          Fortune favors the foolish maybe? Or don't let perfect get in the way of done?
                          This is exactly the reason I used to give the engineers those kind of problems to nurdle on. They'd go away and study it (usually for days) and me and the guys would make something that would work. We'd be testing before they came back with the "right" answer, which we'd ignore as we were gathering the required data by that time.

                          So carry on, Randal - the whole deal is (in the words of my bro) "The Art of the Possible". That's how retrofit plumbing works.

                          Dan
                          Last edited by DanStokes; December 5th, 2012, 05:13 PM.

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                          • #73
                            After looking at it and thinking a little more ... the two manifolds are bolted together, so the spacer has to be a single piece and have all 12 ports on it - unless you're running a header.
                            38P likes this.

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                            • #74
                              Don't worry Beags and Stiney, I do plenty of "bad practice" and "bad engineering" just to try it out (you see my oil tube mod? Complete hackery believe it or not. I don't even know the bit size, been rubbed off, found it in the pile of inherited bits). I just hesitate when I know I can likely sell the intake for almost what I paid for the whole engine =P I only called it sub-optimal, I didn't say I wasn't going to do it I can drill holes and epoxy in injector bungs waaaaaaaay easier than building my own intake, and that appeals to me
                              Last edited by TheSilverBuick; December 5th, 2012, 05:49 PM.
                              38P likes this.
                              Escaped on a technicality.

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                              • #75
                                Fwiw

                                The water neck is the same bolt pattern as that used on the V-8. There's probably an aftermarket part that has a lot less bulk in the place where you need more room for the injectors.

                                Something like this?

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