Schtauffer's 85 Monte SS

[milner351]

ROCK ON!

No better gear-head way to honor Steve than to carry on some of his plans. Very sorry for your loss.

Hope we can wash and tune this one on it's way to power tour like we did the chevelle.

[Schtauffer]

I think you will be happy with those heads on a 400... I know I am, and todays 195's are even better than they were when I bought mine.. :-)

Glad for the input, thank you. I was going to do the 210's but Josh Campbell at AFR thinks they will be too big for a milder-ish 400. Somehow I think that your 10.97 with a 4k converter and transbrake will be roughly a second quicker than my stickbox car paired with my ham-fisted driving skills.

[Schtauffer]

I was hoping you would chime in - I never saw if you did on the "benchrace this" thread.

Gene, a custom cam with that would be the cat's ass! You'll be looking for traction devices next. lol.

I'm more than open to cam suggestions... help please! It will be a roller cam; I had been thinking solid lifters but now I'm thinking I'm too lazy to check and adjust lash periodically, so I better do a hydraulic roller.

[Schtauffer]

Go Gene! See, fatherhood is NOT the end of life as you knew it.

Dan

Indeed, and I am grateful for that. I have found a way to supplement my income so I don't have to dip into the mortgage which is my primary goal. I've saved a few g's over the last year or so and now have enough to build a decent motor. This will actually be the first real motor I am able to put together, and I have a one year old little boy! I am very fortunate.

[Schtauffer]

ROCK ON!

No better gear-head way to honor Steve than to carry on some of his plans. Very sorry for your loss.

Hope we can wash and tune this one on it's way to power tour like we did the chevelle.

You can bet that if this car is ever in Detroit it will be in your driveway for a visit.

[yellomalibu]

Glad for the input, thank you. I was going to do the 210's but Josh Campbell at AFR thinks they will be too big for a milder-ish 400. Somehow I think that your 10.97 with a 4k converter and transbrake will be roughly a second quicker than my stickbox car paired with my ham-fisted driving skills.

Thank you - but the 10.97 was actually not with the AFR's, it was with ported bow ties and about 14:1 compression... a motor that should have run WAY faster than it did, imo. Eventually I found out it was not bored and honed with a plate, so when the heads were torqued down, the tops of the cylinders weren't round and the rings didn't seal properly...

I digress... The flat top motor with the AFR's ran 11.teens after it got sorted out. 7.0's or 7.1's in the 1/8th.
That after I had the heads properly set up for roller springs by David Hartman (a really good local machinist). He installed Ferrea necked down valves and a competition valve job. Car picked up two tenths with that change alone... don't know how bad the old valve job was, but I was amazed at the improvement.
I was running a Crane solid roller that was 250/260 @ .050 with 600/625 lift.
850 dp holley, victor junior, stock crank, 5.7 eagle rods, full floating pistons... msd, locked HEI distributor...

The current version of the engine is considerably slower, though I only ran it at the track once. It went 7.70 in teh 1/8th.
Same heads, flat tops, 6" rods, smaller solid roller cam: comp xr286r 248/254 @ .050 576/582 lift, 750 dp Holley, I thought I'd try a RPM Air Gap after reading about the hype so long, thinking it would boost my power/torque under 6000... not sure that it matters with a 406 though.
I changed converters, too. I now have a "tight 4000" stall FTI converter. Before, I had a Coan 5200 stall.

Oh, I use the inexpensive Heddman 1 3/4" headers, and had to clearance the hell out of the #1 tube for the #3 spark plug. My AFR's are the angle plug versions. Those headers were supposed to fit angle plug heads - so either Heddman was mistaken or AFR's angle plugs are a bit different than GM's were.

Also, if I had the budget for a hydraulic roller setup, I would have gone that route. The peace of mind of I'd have from not worrying about the solid lifters and the rocker arms pounding away thousands of time every minute would be nice.. but maybe I'm just paranoid. With use of a stud girdle, the valve adjustment doesn't move around too much. It's also better for longevity of the rocker studs; keeps them from flexing.

[Monk]

I'm running a solid roller and they don't really need that much attention.
We were going to adjust them last Spring and didn't need it.

In my 427 I had in my Nova we picked up about 20 hp going from hyd roller to solid.

[milner351]

You can bet that if this car is ever in Detroit it will be in your driveway for a visit.

Gene - if you need them - I could probably package up my mics, bore gauge, etc and ship them to you for the build... I shouldn't need them for a little while at least.

Talk to more than one cam company - compare notes, and then decide.

[Schtauffer]

Gene - if you need them - I could probably package up my mics, bore gauge, etc and ship them to you for the build... I shouldn't need them for a little while at least.

Talk to more than one cam company - compare notes, and then decide.

Thanks for the offer! That is more than generous of you. My brother is putting this motor together for me, I will ask if he needs anything and let you know.

[Beagle]

Did Jeff get back to you on the cam? I was toying with the numbers and "theoretically" a Comp XR282HR would pull 14" vacuum, 205 cranking compression, 8.08 Dynamic compression ration with a 10.49:1 406. I used a .039 , 4.166 gasket, zero deck, 14cc dish, 64cc heads *older AFR 195 flow numbers, they are better now I'm told, and a Victor Jr. which on this program usually shows about the same numbers as an RPM Air Gap (which is probably what I would put on a street car). The cam is a 230 degree intake, 236 exhaust 110 LSA hydraulic roller. EA Pro suggested 506 foot pounds and 496 hp with 1 3/4 x 30 headers.

based on the parts, with a 3.73 rear gear and a TKO, the 400 pounds it is suggesting at 2500 RPM, you will have traction problems. First may be useless under throttle on the street without some suspension parts and a soft tire. That would be in my mind a pretty close to the edge of daily driver cam with power brakes, but it's well known that I like tow truck motors.

Those numbers are perfect world, and it would want premium I'm sure. I'm not by any means saying "do that" but I thought I'd toss it out for reference. I'd consider talking to the Chevy guys for recommendations on custom cam speccers. Nobody really "grinds" a custom cam in that sense (okay, damn few. A couple.) A lot of times it is just specifying the lobe profile that somebody like Comp carries and will make a cam for you based on the specs provided to them instead of one of their off the shelf cams. The point of my post is using basic parts I wouldn't be suprised to see 500/500 out of your 406 and it should be pretty freaking enjoyable.

Queue TC and "Vizard says" in 3... 2...

[Schtauffer]

Nothing from Jeff, but he said something about a better intake I believe.

The car has some decent suspension parts now and hooks ok... it pulled a 1.59 60 ft on the spray with ls7gto's 28x10 Hoosier slicks. This 400 with 275/40-17 Continentals will render 1st gear useless, no doubt. The car has a manual master.

My tendency is to want a bigger cam and more head, but I'm afraid of rpm.

[Beagle]

Nothing from Jeff, but he said something about a better intake I believe.

The car has some decent suspension parts now and hooks ok... it pulled a 1.59 60 ft on the spray with ls7gto's 28x10 Hoosier slicks. This 400 with 275/40-17 Continentals will render 1st gear useless, no doubt. The car has a manual master.

My tendency is to want a bigger cam and more head, but I'm afraid of rpm.

This is just my thinking - but .. you don't need the rpm on the street. 2nd at redline will get you a lot of tickets in town. 400's don't have a "great" rod to stroke anwyay. Use the cubes, you may have to take some gear out of it (3.42's) and let the inches do the work. Think of a 350 at 6000, but a 400 at ~87% is 5250? A 350 with 400 foot pounds at 3000 is a 400 at 2625. Oversimplified for sure, but the air demands are about the same.

The 195 is a 500hp capable head on a 350, lower your RPM by 12.5 percent, and you're in the 406's area. It should be grin inducing somewhere right off of idle.

I'm working backwards from a target RPM / MPH in the 1/4 and planning a 302 is a whole nother level from a 393 (I think Ford). I want the 302 crossing at over 6500, but the 393 at 5500-5750. I can guarantee you the 393 will be more fun at stoplights, yet the head requirements aren't much different.. AFR 185 will do for both, but will be snappy in the 393 at speeds where the 302 won't be (as) much fun.

1.59! Excellent!! Hell, do whatever you want. lol. It's gonna surpise some people!!

[Schtauffer]

A 3.48" stroke at 6000 rpm has the same piston speed as a 3.75" stroke at 5568 rpm. A 400 at 6500 rpm is the equivalent of a 350 @ 7000 rpm, at least in regards to piston speed.

On the nitrous passes with the 350, a 700R-4, 4.10 gears, and Doug's 28" slicks it was floating the valves just under 6k through the traps at 117 mph. I will either need to gear it back up to a 3.73 or at least a 3.90, or build a motor for more rpm.

[yellomalibu]

What length rod are you going with?

For a low rpm driver (like my truck) I wouldn't hesitate for a second to use the stock short rods; just put good bolts in them. However, for a hot rod that will spin up fairly often, and for better piston selection to customize your compression ratio and to get the top ring lowered for nitrous use and whatnot, I would probably go with 5.7" rods.

[Schtauffer]

I have a couple sets of Manley 5.7 rods that will go in the motor if they check out ok.