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74 NovaMan's 65 Convertible VW Beetle

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  • #31
    looks like a clean beetle.

    my next project will probably end up being a bug, once the wagon is "finished" and I get around to putting a supercharger on the mustang. I want a 60s convertible like that, but my bug will have a straight axle, no fenders and of course a flat 4 subie engine in it. probably will get around to that in my 30s, need to get a welder and all that first.
    Hellinor- 2005 Mustang GT-Bolt ons, in need of a turbo

    War Wagon- 1966 Bel Air Wagon-355 Crate motor, 700r4, flies pretty good for a brick...

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    • #32
      Stiney, you rock. It's always good to have a fountain of information available to tap into when embarking on a new project.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by yellomalibu View Post
        Stiney, you rock. It's always good to have a fountain of information available to tap into when embarking on a new project.
        If I missed saying it before, I agree with this completely!
        Chris - HRPT Long Haul 03, 04, 05, 13, 14, 15,16 & 18
        74 Nova Project
        66 Mustang GT Project

        92 Camaro RS Convertible Project
        79 Chevy Truck Project
        1956 Cadillac Project

        Comment


        • #34
          More pictures - Motor in the car:



          Is this the engine number I'm looking for?

          Attached Files
          Last edited by 74NovaMan; September 24, 2014, 09:33 AM.
          Chris - HRPT Long Haul 03, 04, 05, 13, 14, 15,16 & 18
          74 Nova Project
          66 Mustang GT Project

          92 Camaro RS Convertible Project
          79 Chevy Truck Project
          1956 Cadillac Project

          Comment


          • #35
            Extra motor:



            Vacuum distributor:

            Attached Files
            Last edited by 74NovaMan; September 24, 2014, 09:37 AM.
            Chris - HRPT Long Haul 03, 04, 05, 13, 14, 15,16 & 18
            74 Nova Project
            66 Mustang GT Project

            92 Camaro RS Convertible Project
            79 Chevy Truck Project
            1956 Cadillac Project

            Comment


            • #36
              Wheel:

              Attached Files
              Last edited by 74NovaMan; September 24, 2014, 09:40 AM.
              Chris - HRPT Long Haul 03, 04, 05, 13, 14, 15,16 & 18
              74 Nova Project
              66 Mustang GT Project

              92 Camaro RS Convertible Project
              79 Chevy Truck Project
              1956 Cadillac Project

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by DanStokes View Post
                Stiney, can you tell from the pic if that has the old style or new style oil cooler? I can't remember what Georgiann's shroud looked like so I have no clue what a new-style would look like. Hope they have the new type.

                Dan
                Yes, especially if the picture is from the flywheel side of the engine. It is referred to as a "doghouse cooler" due to the somewhat doghouse roof shaped extra cooling ductwork.

                Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by 74NovaMan View Post
                  More pictures - Motor in the car:



                  Is this the engine number I'm looking for?


                  That is the engine number indeed. AK case with those serial numbers is a Type 1 case from March-August 1973.

                  See that welded shut port directly above the fuel pump? That is to a throttle control valve (emmissions stuff) that was supposed to make the throttle close slowly instead of slamming shut. Helped emmission wise supposedly. As you can see not too many survived as they were troublesome (like most emmissions stuff of the 70s-80s)

                  Looks like you have a standard size pulley after all. Good! And the spare engine has both an alternator AND a doghouse shroud/oil cooler AND a advance distributor. Triple good!

                  Ready for the good/bad news?

                  That extra transmission is what is referred to my the aftermarket vendors as a "Freeway Flyer" special. Notice how it has one side plate? (thing behind the cv joint hub) And the other side is cast shut? The earlier IRS transaxles had a plate on both sides, this one is both stronger and will have 3:88ish ring & pinion where the earlier stuff was more in the 4:12 range. The later engines had more power so the factory was able to reduce the overall gearing needed.

                  Bad news is that you would have to convert from swingaxle to IRS rear suspension, which is possible but fairly involved and requires many more parts. Not really necessary. Those gears should be able to be retrofitted into your earlier swingaxle transaxle though, so we are back to good news if you do a rebuild on the swingaxle (probably not necessary though)



                  That wheel......is it by any chance a 14" tire on it? Looks an awful lot like a Thing or early Bus wheel, they would be 14". If it is 15" it is an early "smoothie" beetle wheel that still has the hubcap clips intact, again, nice score.

                  That spare engine shows every sign of having come straight out of a complete non-molested bug. It has solid appearing heater boxes and all the heat tubes, ductwork, etc. Lots of bugs "lost" these parts during their lifetimes to mechanics who deemed them unnecessary extra parts.



                  Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by STINEY View Post


                    That is the engine number indeed. AK case with those serial numbers is a Type 1 case from March-August 1973.

                    See that welded shut port directly above the fuel pump? That is to a throttle control valve (emmissions stuff) that was supposed to make the throttle close slowly instead of slamming shut. Helped emmission wise supposedly. As you can see not too many survived as they were troublesome (like most emmissions stuff of the 70s-80s)

                    Looks like you have a standard size pulley after all. Good! And the spare engine has both an alternator AND a doghouse shroud/oil cooler AND a advance distributor. Triple good!

                    Ready for the good/bad news?

                    That extra transmission is what is referred to my the aftermarket vendors as a "Freeway Flyer" special. Notice how it has one side plate? (thing behind the cv joint hub) And the other side is cast shut? The earlier IRS transaxles had a plate on both sides, this one is both stronger and will have 3:88ish ring & pinion where the earlier stuff was more in the 4:12 range. The later engines had more power so the factory was able to reduce the overall gearing needed.

                    Bad news is that you would have to convert from swingaxle to IRS rear suspension, which is possible but fairly involved and requires many more parts. Not really necessary. Those gears should be able to be retrofitted into your earlier swingaxle transaxle though, so we are back to good news if you do a rebuild on the swingaxle (probably not necessary though)



                    That wheel......is it by any chance a 14" tire on it? Looks an awful lot like a Thing or early Bus wheel, they would be 14". If it is 15" it is an early "smoothie" beetle wheel that still has the hubcap clips intact, again, nice score.

                    That spare engine shows every sign of having come straight out of a complete non-molested bug. It has solid appearing heater boxes and all the heat tubes, ductwork, etc. Lots of bugs "lost" these parts during their lifetimes to mechanics who deemed them unnecessary extra parts.



                    So it is probably a 1700cc motor? On the transmissions, is there a difference in the final gear ratio? I’m guessing that I’ll have more issues with cruising speed (being fast enough for my habits) than I will with acceleration. Do you think it would hurt the value of the finished car if the rear suspension was updated?

                    I probably should get it running so I can see what I have and how it will perform before I get too far down any particular rabbit hole.

                    If the motor is a 73, what are the chances it was not converted to 12v? My gut feeling is that it’s pretty slim.

                    ​I think I can make out a 15 on the tire in the picture of the wheel. Are these worth much? I had been leaning toward aftermarket rims, but now I'm not so sure.
                    Last edited by 74NovaMan; September 24, 2014, 11:48 AM.
                    Chris - HRPT Long Haul 03, 04, 05, 13, 14, 15,16 & 18
                    74 Nova Project
                    66 Mustang GT Project

                    92 Camaro RS Convertible Project
                    79 Chevy Truck Project
                    1956 Cadillac Project

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      No on the 1700cc...............these are type 1 motors, and the largest they ever were from the factory was 1600cc. The 1700cc stuff was typeIV, kind of the big block version of the venerable flat-four. Big difference visually.

                      Transmissions, for the most part the forward gear ratios were all the same. VW adjusted the final drive according to the power output of the engines for that year. As power increased, the ratios went up. (down numerically)

                      Finished value on bugs seems to strongly favor originality. I'd leave it as is rear suspension wise.

                      We have run lots of swingaxles, they are very good at what they do - regardless of what that twit Ralph Nader has to say about them.

                      Like DeafBob said, add what is called a "camber-compensator" to a swingaxle and enjoy the handling! Nothing else is really needed in my book.

                      I forgot to address the front balljoint earlier. What you have is called a "king-pin" or "link-pin" front beam. It is actually preferred in the VW circles, as it is tough, simple, and easy to modify whether you are going to raise OR lower the suspension. Balljoint front beams have those pesky balljoints that have a limited range of motion AND like to pop-loose offroad.

                      I'm about 98% certain you are now 12 volt. From what I can see I can almost guarantee it. Almost.....I'm leaving myself a 2% out though, lol.

                      The smoothies do have some value, but its not a ton. Certainly not enough to majorly offset the purchase of new aftermarket wheels, I'd either run them with a nice paintjob and factory hubcaps, or keep them to go with it in a future sale. The wheels are date-coded and they may be original to the car....if so definitely keep them for a future sale at least.

                      If they are 14" bus wheels, then you have gold, depending on the date code. Bus nuts are completely bonkers on originality, and will do anything to get the correct parts. Its crazy.

                      Get it running and feel it out first, that motor with the original transaxle is going to be a fun combo. Not a racecar for sure, but not the old 40hp stereotype either. And cruising a VW is something special, just be ready for all the attention from the kiddos. Bugs are like candy to little kids.


                      Last edited by STINEY; September 24, 2014, 12:14 PM.
                      Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Thanks for the quick and detailed response. I appreciate it.

                        What is your guess for a comfortable cruising speed (freeway) given what we think we know at this point?
                        Last edited by 74NovaMan; September 24, 2014, 12:38 PM.
                        Chris - HRPT Long Haul 03, 04, 05, 13, 14, 15,16 & 18
                        74 Nova Project
                        66 Mustang GT Project

                        92 Camaro RS Convertible Project
                        79 Chevy Truck Project
                        1956 Cadillac Project

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          70 mph is going to be in the 3400rpm range. Depending on your preferences in noise levels (air-cooled engines lack water jackets and are louder as a result) this may be perfectly acceptable. The engine will be getting plenty of cooling air with those rpms. Remember, these do NOT like to be short-shifted and lugged. Drive them like a maserati, wind 'em up before shifting.

                          There are little red marks on the speedometer that are your factory shift points, by the way.

                          Speaking of which, be sure to leave the plastic rain guard on the back of the engine lid. Its a convertible specific item, as is the decklid itself. Convertible decklids had more air inlet louvers from the factory. Used to be popular/necessary to swap them onto sedans with stroked engines, they let in a lot more air. Notice how you do not have vents below the rear window like the sedans do?


                          The stock rocker arm shaft clips will come apart at around 5500-6000 rpm (which you won't be reaching with a stock carb anyways), just as a reference as to what rpms the stock engine parts are designed to spin at. Those clips are the first thing to fail due to high rpms, then the rocker walks off the valve tip and you are down 1/4 in power and hear nasty sounds from the valve covers. Bolt-together shafts with shims are the cure to that, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

                          Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Can you stick your camera under the front and rear of the car and snap some pictures of the suspension?

                            From the way the car sits I'm wondering if the pan has already been swapped to IRS and converted back to 5-lug. This has lots of clues about it having been a mild resto-custom at one time......roller pedal, shifter, heater controls look like later versions, and the rear doesn't seem to have enough camber change at that height to be a swing-axle.

                            I'm suspicious that there may be more than meets the eye here.

                            Have you matched the VINs from under the front hood (plate behind the spare tire) to the sticker on the drivers door post , and to the one on the tunnel just infront of the shift linkage cover opening under the back seat? If the pan is swapped the one under the back seat will be different. Your title may match either of these.......I've had a car with 2 titles, one for body and one for pan.
                            Of all the paths you take in life - make sure a few of them are dirt.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by STINEY View Post
                              Can you stick your camera under the front and rear of the car and snap some pictures of the suspension?
                              I'll try to get a look tonight. Thanks again.
                              Chris - HRPT Long Haul 03, 04, 05, 13, 14, 15,16 & 18
                              74 Nova Project
                              66 Mustang GT Project

                              92 Camaro RS Convertible Project
                              79 Chevy Truck Project
                              1956 Cadillac Project

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                STINEY has you covered. The thing that attracted me early on, and maybe you will too, is the simple engineering in these things. Taking apart every piece of one of these to see how they work and for what reason they were made is kool. Then you'll modify it.

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