Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

[RacerRick]

Anyone know anything about big buicks? I can pick up a rusty 73' electra with a 455 in it, with factory duals. Its supposed to be some high performance option engine. Anyone know anything about these? I can get the car cheap, and the engine runs very well and has low miles.

The reason I am asking is that I might get this engine, throw a stage 1 cam in it, a oil pump booster plate kit, and an intake manifold to wake it up a bit and stuff it into my daily driver S10. I have seen pics of other peoples installations using the stock exhaust manifolds so I know it will fit. Should still weigh under 3000lbs too.

Is there any common problems with these big buicks that I should look for?

It has a TH400, and what looks like a 12 bolt rear that has a posi in it. These rears the same as chevy 12 bolts? I wouldn't mind cutting this axle down to fit into the S10 and putting a new set of axles in it.

Would A TH350 he better for this lightweight daily driver truck? I can get a BOP TH350 pretty easily. Have one from a 69' olds sitting in the shop.

The idea is a big cube low stress engine that will get reasonable gas milage, be dead reliable, and inexpensive to swap.

[Eric68]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

A friend and I put a 455 Buick from a 72 Centurion in a 69 Firebird (same chassis as a 1st gen Camaro). This was a sacrilege I know, but it was 1984 and we were young and stupid.

There were a few issues that we learned. The Buick starter was on the wrong side for the Chevy/Pontiac. The Buick engine we had, we dropped (a long story) and it lost oil pressure due to some damage in the front on the engine. I believe the Buicks have some weak spots in the oil system.

I think once you beef up the oiling system these engines are pretty good as long as you don't try to wind them up too tight. They do make a LOT of TQ.

Maybe someone with more recent Buick experience will chime in here . . .

[DanStokes]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

I did a BBB in an '80 Chevy full size PU. Came out great and ran like stink. I used a Kenne-Bell RV cam, but they tell me K-B is out of the Buick business. Shame! This is a GREAT engine. The soft spots - the cast pistons (if you were going for more HP than you are) and , if built to the teeth - oiling. For the kind of motor you're discussing, I wouldn't expect any problems. A tidbit you might find interesting - these heads breathe like crazy. The 5/8 base sparkplugs were developed originally for this engine, as they got the head designed the way they wanted it and the old 13/16 ones wouldn't fit. (I got this story from the AC Sparkplug rep, so if it's wrong, go beat on him!)

I ran the Qjet and it made good power. The Electra should have the 850 QJ on it. Obviously, put a curve kit in the HEI. If you're going to run the TH400, don't forget to put a new front bushing (converter bushing) and seal in it. A mistake I made twice (once on the PU, another on my Caddy) and I'll never do THAT again.

Should be a fun, low buck ride. Have Fun!!
Dan

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

73 has the decent heads and the sorta crappy compression pistons. Its a bit improved block over the original 70 one. Remember that though the 455 is light for a big block it is very wide and long since it uses a massive bore size. Once you do the oiling system mods and make sure the pump is in good shape its a very nice motor. I'd suggest getting a different trans though. The TH400 in an Electra will be a long tail unit and that could cause driveline angle issues unless done right. If you are looking for bolt ons, I'd say an Edlebrock Performer intake, an HEI distributor or a Dave's Smallbody points conversion (74 or 75 would be the first year for a factory HEI), get the front cover fully redone or a new TA one, stab in a new cam, and a new stock replacement chain. In order, cover, intake, HEI, chain, cam.

You can't cut 12 bolt axles since they are tapered and it might be a Buick 9 3/8in rear but by '73 they might have gone corporate

[RacerRick]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

73 has the decent heads and the sorta crappy compression pistons. Its a bit improved block over the original 70 one. Remember that though the 455 is light for a big block it is very wide and long since it uses a massive bore size. Once you do the oiling system mods and make sure the pump is in good shape its a very nice motor. I'd suggest getting a different trans though. The TH400 in an Electra will be a long tail unit and that could cause driveline angle issues unless done right. If you are looking for bolt ons, I'd say an Edlebrock Performer intake, an HEI distributor or a Dave's Smallbody points conversion (74 or 75 would be the first year for a factory HEI), get the front cover fully redone or a new TA one, stab in a new cam, and a new stock replacement chain. In order, cover, intake, HEI, chain, cam.

You can't cut 12 bolt axles since they are tapered and it might be a Buick 9 3/8in rear but by '73 they might have gone corporate

I was thinking a new set of axles and drums to go back to the 4.75" bolt pattern - there was a buick 9 3/8" rear that late?

[Two Lane Blacktop]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

No more Kenne-Bell like the late-60s-thru-early-90s...
they do primarily superchargers for Fords & Chevies.

Now for Buicks there is: www.taperformance.com


Bring mucho-grande wallet.

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

Ok, my two cents.

I'll start with the oiling system, if you are going for anything other than a full time race engine I'd leave the stock pump alone unless you see issues with it, and it being external you deal with it then. My experience with the oil pump is the booster plate is only needed IF you have very low oil pressure. I've experimented with my oil pump, I've ran it stock, with just the booster plate and with just the HV Kit (on the 231 I ran both the Booster plate and the HV Kit but that engine had issues). Basically the results were with the booster plate was that I had to let the car warm up to full operating temp before the pressure would even drop to 80 psi (10w-30), 800rpm would max out the gauge (another thing I've replaced numerous times from maxing out oil pressure gauges), also the booster plate would completely over power the pressure relief spring. I've also spun oil filters off from the pressure breaking the filter seal :o The HV kit wasn't as extreme as the plate, but it did result in higher pressure than the relief spring when cold and the relief spring/valve seemed to keep pressure regulated at 60-80psi(depending on the spring) with no troubles. In the end (and after 40,000miles since the rebuild) I've gone with just the stock cover with an 80 psi spring and I have 80psi cold and above 4,000rpm@200*F. When warmed up it'll have 20psi@600rpm and rises quickly, by 2,000rpm I'm at 50-60psi. Also BE SURE to pack the gears with petroleum jelly or it will NOT prime. If your bearing clearances are good then your oil pressure will be too. The oiling sytem while not fantastic is decent enough, It'll build oil pressure as soon as the engine is cranked.

One thing to look for in a '73 block is I believe there was a change somewhere to one of the water passages going to the heads, it's relatively minor but there is a modification that has to be made to bolt an earlier head to it. Any aftermarket intakes will require the 1970 intake gasket to seal up the exhaust crossover and smog ports on the heads.

Compression is probably 7.5:1, new pistons would be the way to go to up that. If you have the heads off if they aren't already equipped with Stage 1 valves you can take them to a machine shop to have the larger valves put in.

I'm not sure if you will ever have traction with all that torque, my 5,000+lb Centurion with 2.93's can start burning the hides by 1,500rpm, but the mileage isn't half bad at around 15mpg on the highway with a TH400.
Let us know if you go with it

[DanStokes]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

Yeah, what TSB said! His oiling experience parallels mine. If I was going racing, I'd do the tube and rifle drill deal, but that's a BIG job and likely not needed for a street engine.

Besides TA Performance, there's Poston. Offenhauser still makes valve covers and intakes, and Edelbrock has some stuff, too. Racer Brown made cams, but I don't know if they're still around. Pretty sure Comp has various bits and pieces of valve train stuff. Delta Cams in Tacoma is always a great go-to if you want a cam and don't have a pile of money.

Hope all this helps
Dan

[RacerRick]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

Well, thats good then...I won't have to mess around with the oiling system much, or at all. I don't want to dig into the engine much at all. Just re-seal it, and maybe throw a cam into it and some valve springs. I was told the Stage 1 cam would work well. The engine is rated at 8.5:1 compression, so I am hoping it is not too much below that.

The engine is going into a 2780lb S10 shortbed. Should be around 3000lbs when all together. I think the posi rear in this car has 2.93's or similar in it. I would like to see 20mpg out of it which is better than the v6 that is in it now.

[DanStokes]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

You can mill the heads some (not sure of the cc/0.0010 on this engine, but we can find out). Don't forget to mill the intake to match. CR always makes a BIG difference for not much $$.

The Torque will amaze you. Hope the rear will stand up!

Dan

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

20mpg with out an O/D might be a stretch with a Stg 1 grind, but you never know. I haven't tried it in such a light vehicle.

[CTX-SLPR]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

A swap to 70 heads would get you more compression but you'd need to plug the oil passage in the deck on one side and I think one side has a larger water passage on the front of the motor but that might be small block stuff I'm remembering there. I just suggest a new filter adapter section and check your end play on the spur gears. An HV pump has a tendency to melt down the front cam bearing due to excessive load. I don't think the 73 was that low in compression, that sounds like 75-76 open chamber motors. I think its more up around 8.0. I've actually got a partial engine rebuild kit laying around. I think its short rings and the intake valley pan gasket but the rest is there. I had a 74 Riviera motor I was going to use it on so it should be the right stuff for yours if you want it. Its the TA kit.

[RacerRick]

Re: Big Buick questions and maybe a 455 into an S10....

I am going to reseal the engine but not delve into the bottom end, so that kit would probably be perfect.

I know nothing about buicks since I have never owned one. The stage 1 cam didn't seem very rowdy, and whatever is in the car now is tiny...you can barely tell its running it will idle so low.