Dana 60 - full floater

[cstmwgn]

I am working on the Dana 60 out of my 66 F250. It has integral drums and hubs in the rear. I would like to upgrade it to have separate hubs and drums. I would also like to retain the 6.5" bolt circle and not go to the 170mm bolt circle. I have done some research and believe that I can find Timkens that will work with the slightly different dimensions between the 66 stuff and the 70s/80s stuff.

So my question is - what is the best source for these hubs?
Do I need to scour the junk yard for an older donor truck or is there something available in the aftermarket that would be a better solution?

[Loren]

Sounds like a junkyard-scour to me. It's possible mid-seventies Dodge D60 stuff would also fit. All incl. GM (which I don't think you want) were 6.5 circle 'til Ford in '99.

[SuperBuickGuy]

uh oh.... I think I just tossed what you're looking for.... I'll look again, but I wouldn't hold my breath... when I did my Dana 60, I put 14 bolt hubs for a number of reasons including disk brakes....

[silver_bullet]

Crossing fingers....

[squirrel]

you might do some research, and see if a later rear will have the correct wheel-to-wheel width. 60s stuff is getting pretty scarce. 70s-80s isn't so bad, and they seemed to use the same parts for more years, in the later trucks. I suggest swapping out the entire rear end.

beware the Dana 61, though...look at the number cast on the housing....get a 60.

[Tubbed Pacecar]

**And I believe the Ford Vans E250, E350 carried on with the 6,5" Bolt circle for several years after the Superduty trucks went to the 170mm hubcentric bolt circle. but I don't believe they were Dana's, my guess would be Sterling?
**And even as far back as '73,(first year of Dentsides), the diff's all got wider when compared to the earlier years (F100/150, F250, F350)

Sounds like a junkyard-scour to me. It's possible mid-seventies Dodge D60 stuff would also fit. All incl. GM (which I don't think you want) were 6.5 circle 'til Ford in '99.

[cstmwgn]

Aaron - please let me know if you find them.

Jim - is strength really an issue for Dana 60s if you aren't off-roading them? Are there upgrades that can be done to the 60s to address some of the weaknesses?

Tubbed Pacecar - is there a chart somewhere that list hub widths for Dana and Sterling rearends? (I attempted to search for this but my google foo wasn't up to the task)

I checked the local LKQ yard but they only had one F250 listed in the inventory.

[Loren]

If you wind up changing the entire axle assy, yep they got wider after the sixties but in my limited experience the flange-to-flange width increase came from hubs having an outward offset, not a change in housings or axles. You can see looking at a sixties truck compared to a seventies, the hub/axle mounting flange sticks further out from the wheel on the older truck, meaning the wheel is just set back in. Therefore if you go changing hubs on your existing housing, watch for that offset...maybe you want it, maybe you don't.

D60s back when were not so much for ultimate strength but rather to hold up under continuous heavy use (the minimal pinion-to-axle c/l offset is a product of that). Thus, look for tiny 30-spline axles that are the same size as used on Dana 44's now. Later they went to 35 spline.

I'm not sure how changing the hubs from integral to separate drums is an upgrade...just different...unless parts availability is the issue.

[SuperBuickGuy]

as I suspected, the last scrap load had those hubs in them.... 5 years of sitting and I needed the room.

[cstmwgn]

as I suspected, the last scrap load had those hubs in them.... 5 years of sitting and I needed the room.

Thanks for checking.
My Dana 60 looks to be in pretty good condition and appears to be one of the shorter ones available (which is good for my plans). If I upgrade the axles to 35 splines (currently have the 16 spline stuff) will that address the strength concerns or is the larger pinion shaft of the Dana 80 also critical?

[SuperBuickGuy]

what are your usage plans for the truck? full floaters shine under heavy loads or in 4x4s where breaking an axle means a lot of walking

[cstmwgn]

what are your usage plans for the truck? full floaters shine under heavy loads or in 4x4s where breaking an axle means a lot of walking

It will do some towing (car trailer) but not extensive. It will do some hauling of building materials, junkyard finds and dump runs (hopefully not frequently).
Mostly just my street truck toy. It currently has a 468 in it but that will be upgraded to something between 521 and 588. I am playing with the idea of making it a torque monster by having it all done by 5K!

[SuperBuickGuy]

nice plan, why not a 10.5 Sterling? all that capacity and disk brakes. I should explain a bit, the Dana 60 is a good rear end, but unless you want to look factory, there are much better solutions out there. I used a 60 rear because I get better clearance then I would with a 14 bolt - and in a 4x4, often that is what I need most. I upgraded the axles to 35 spline 4340 and, of course, a splined hub cover. There was no splined cover for the dana 60, so that was the other reason for going with 14 bolt spindles. As for strength, the combat continues as to which is stronger (14 bolt v. 10.5) - but truth is you need to get to 2 1/2 ton before you'll find a better option.

[Loren]

Dana 80 is 11.25", and (edit) I suppose might be the last step before military or medium-duty truck stuff unless there's something I don't know about.

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I think (my opinion only) if you're just doing hauling and dump runs a 60 would be fine, considering the abuse I've laid onto half-ton trucks and even my El Camino 12-bolt over time. I think of an old guy I used to know with a sixties F250 (D60) with a lift gate that worked as a scrap collector/hauler, and the beating his poor truck took for years, and it never failed as far as I know. The larger rear axles are needed with lockers or part-time 4wd where all the torque the drivetrain can make and all the weight to plant it may get concentrated on one wheel, or two wheels working against each other just going around a corner on a high-traction surface. Particularly with tall tires that can put a huge amount of stress into the axles no matter what engine torque is. My big bro had a Dana 50 in the front of his F-350 and shattered it to pieces last summer just by forgetting to take the transfer case out of 4wd turning out of his dirt driveway onto the asphalt road and never even hitting the throttle, and I broke the u-joint on the front D44 on the Cherokee doing basically the same thing. Normal 2wd use with an open diff or posi rear would never do that.

The 80 in my truck was put there by Dodge because 420 ft./lbs of engine torque times the 5.61 manual trans first gear = 2,356 ft./lbs to the rear. (you could say, that torque times 4.11 and apportioned through the locker could theoretically deliver an axle-mushing 9,500 ft. lbs to a single wheel but of-course the tire would break traction, and serve as a weak link/safety device long before you hit that.) Anyhow I once was in a situation where I was on a very steep hill with my heavy car hauler trailer behind and had to chain another truck to the back of that and drag it's back end sideways across the asphalt, dealing with the initial roll back before getting the clutch engaged, and I thought "Man if I was ever going to break the rear end in this thing, this will be it" and no, no problem so I was glad I had it. But again, not something that would happen in normal street use where a lighter diff would suffice.

If you ever thought you wanted to upgrade from a D60 to just a 70, 70s are common out there because of their use on (again) '90s Dodges, with automatics. The hub offset/resultant flange-to-flange width may be a problem but a drum-brake assy w/ 3.55 posi may sell at around $300 for something that may never break even if you try. Plus, when you just peer under the truck it'll still look like the stock 60, every Dana rear is shaped about the same and has ten bolts holding the cover down.

[cstmwgn]

WOW - AM I AN IDIOT!

So, I don't actually have integral drums and hubs after all! They are two piece deals with the drums sandwiched between the wheel stud heads and the hubs. All the other drum brake stuff I have messed with the drums slipped onto the studs between the axle and wheel. I pressed out the studs and whallah - hubs and drums fell apart.

The whole point of this exercise was to come up with some hubs that I could use to mount hats to to build big brakes for the rear.

Now onto the upgrade to bigger / better rear end assemblies. Can anyone point me to a chart that list the different flange to flange lengths for either the Sterling or the Dana 80? My current unit is 63 3/16" flange to flange. I don't want to go any wider.

Again, sorry to waste y'alls time but at least I learned something, now if I can remember it long enough to write it down, I might be good to go when it comes time to do it the next time.