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  • Engine angles and placement .

    From what I've seen and read most engines with a carb intake, with the carb mounting flange level, the engine has a 3* tilt front to rear, with the rear lower.
    How much of that can you take away if you needed to, to get the drive shaft u joint angles into spec. before you have problems.
    Some point out oil drainage to sump (rear sump) but most trucks have a rake to them with the rear higher. killing any oil flow to the sump from that tiny 3* tilt .
    So, in a car that you might have to shim up the transmission mount to raise or lower the tail shaft . how much many degree's do you have to keep of that 3 tilt. before you have issues? and what issues.
    I can see huge angle changes being a problem with fuel bowls. but if you needed to set the engine at 1degree and the carb mounting flange is now tilted 2 degrees down at the front of the mounting surface, is it really going to be a big deal.
    Last edited by Eric; December 17th, 2018, 09:49 AM.

  • #2

    Re: Engine angles and placement .

    you can move the engine quite a bit and it will work fine. Although most folks seem to rotate the rear end instead, to get the driveline angles right.

    When you put a blower on an engine, the 3 degrees goes away...doesn't seem to be an issue at all. And normal driving, will move the fuel in the bowls way more than 3 degrees.

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    • #3

      Re: Engine angles and placement .

      We always tried to keep the valve covers fairly level when shoehorning our GM combos into oddballs, like early 60's Fords.. They need extreme setback or sit high..
      BUT I have seen others with lots of "rake" on their installations.. Other problems come into play.. Like tranny oils..
      Rears generally have 5* downwards, most, including us make it 5* ishy up.. By the time the car bends, it points down.

      If you worry about fuel, you can buy wedged adaptors

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      • #4

        Re: Engine angles and placement .

        this 500" cad in a 53 IH pickup was almost 8 degrees rearward,
        you can see the valvecovers are running downhill.
        worked/drove fine, i did use a wedged spacer under carb.

        boat places usually have the wedged carb spacer that the great deaf one suggested.

        Click image for larger version

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        • #5

          Re: Engine angles and placement .

          I like the look if its an old gasser, but todays builders are all about keeping it low and its impossible to get a driveshaft angle with any tilt whatsoever or the shaft is going into the ground. For the most part, me, looking at a build, if its tilted back too far the guy simply did not want to redo the trans tunnel and it comes off as lazy. No disrespect to any build, but thats what I see.

          Right now, working on my 66 chevelle, got thousands of dollars of reproduction panels, there is not much left of the car. The full floor is great, but no way I am stuffing any kind of overdrive trans in there without having a terrible looking angle. Its a big block car too, so getting at those back two plugs, forgetaboutit if the engine is not up.
          Last edited by anotheridiot; December 19th, 2018, 08:31 AM.

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          • #6

            Re: Engine angles and placement .

            I like the look if its an old gasser, but todays builders are all about keeping it low and its impossible to get a driveshaft angle with any tilt whatsoever or the shaft is going into the ground. For the most part, me, looking at a build, if its tilted back too far the guy simply did not want to redo the trans tunnel and it comes off as lazy. No disrespect to any build, but thats what I see.

            Right now, working on my 66 chevelle, got thousands of dollars of reproduction panels, there is not much left of the car. The full floor is great, but no way I am stuffing any kind of overdrive trans in there without having a terrible looking angle. Its a big block car too, so getting at those back two plugs, forgetaboutit if the engine is not up.


            thats exactly what it was--i didnt want to redo the trans tunnel, hah hah.

            as for an overdrive, i think a 200R4 uses same mount, driveshaft etc as a th350....
            or are you putting a stickshift in your car? you might fit a t5 or something but
            unless its an under 350hp smallblock and your going to 'grandma driveit', that
            wont last long.

            if its a healthy big block, run a muncie or t-10 and 3.42-3.73 gears with at least
            a 275/60 tire and the freeway revs (for me at least) would be liveable at around
            2500-2700rpm @ 55mph.....

            as far as "todays builders its all about keeping it low" that comes off as being
            a sheep that follows the trend, and being shallow enough to put looks before
            anything else. as you said, no disrespect to any build, but thats what i see..

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            • #7

              Re: Engine angles and placement .




              thats exactly what it was--i didnt want to redo the trans tunnel, hah hah.

              as for an overdrive, i think a 200R4 uses same mount, driveshaft etc as a th350....
              or are you putting a stickshift in your car? you might fit a t5 or something but
              unless its an under 350hp smallblock and your going to 'grandma driveit', that
              wont last long.

              if its a healthy big block, run a muncie or t-10 and 3.42-3.73 gears with at least
              a 275/60 tire and the freeway revs (for me at least) would be liveable at around
              2500-2700rpm @ 55mph.....

              as far as "todays builders its all about keeping it low" that comes off as being
              a sheep that follows the trend, and being shallow enough to put looks before
              anything else. as you said, no disrespect to any build, but thats what i see..
              We just put a 700R4 in the camaro and its too tight. I have a muncie I was planning to start with, to get back to the SS clone, but I am getting old and all the city driving I might want to switch to an automatic. At that point, I dont know what parts will be like for a TH350 or 400 and I know its gonna be a BFH to make some room later. The current deal is to go 4L60 65 or 80 E with a controller and the diameter up front with the overdrive is really big. The Temec? 6 speeds are monsters too.

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              • #8

                Re: Engine angles and placement .


                We just put a 700R4 in the camaro and its too tight. I have a muncie I was planning to start with, to get back to the SS clone, but I am getting old and all the city driving I might want to switch to an automatic. At that point, I dont know what parts will be like for a TH350 or 400 and I know its gonna be a BFH to make some room later. The current deal is to go 4L60 65 or 80 E with a controller and the diameter up front with the overdrive is really big. The Temec? 6 speeds are monsters too.
                as stated a 200R4 (grand nationals had em ) fits like a th350, same x-member, mount, driveshaft and all.
                they can be built WAY stronger than any 7004R (horrible trans if you ask me...) and as a plus have a lower
                1st gear and a higher o/d than the 7004R.

                also no expensive and/or complicated controller needed. a 4L60E is the electronic version of the 7004R,
                unless it was already in the car and working id personally never run one in any of my rides.
                4L80E is electronic o/d version of th400 so its strong, but also needs controller--and its HUGE.

                cost/simplicity id run a muncie or a th350,but if i needed o/d id do the 200R4 as it fits in same space as th350.
                thats just me though. either way im sure the car will be a blast.

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                • #9

                  Re: Engine angles and placement .


                  as stated a 200R4 (grand nationals had em ) fits like a th350, same x-member, mount, driveshaft and all.
                  they can be built WAY stronger than any 7004R (horrible trans if you ask me...) and as a plus have a lower
                  1st gear and a higher o/d than the 7004R.

                  also no expensive and/or complicated controller needed. a 4L60E is the electronic version of the 7004R,
                  unless it was already in the car and working id personally never run one in any of my rides.
                  4L80E is electronic o/d version of th400 so its strong, but also needs controller--and its HUGE.

                  cost/simplicity id run a muncie or a th350,but if i needed o/d id do the 200R4 as it fits in same space as th350.
                  thats just me though. either way im sure the car will be a blast.
                  Its hand me downs though. I am not gonna stop if my son wants the electronic trans for his camaro, so there is a perfectly good 700r4 available from the camaro, with three choices of stall converters that ended up going in his car. As far as cores in the shop now, I have 2 powerglides, 2 700R4's, 1 th350 and 1 4L80E that we rebuilt for our van but ended up getting another rebuilt since the pump was shot and still had no pressure. I have gone thru the 200 to 700 and just heard of the cost to build the 200 is about double the 700 and its still going to be asking for problems.

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                  • #10

                    Re: Engine angles and placement .

                    they make carbs that can work are pretty severe angles
                    0-90670 - 670 CFM Holley Off-Road Truck Avenger Carburetor ImageIn the 4x4 racing world, a lot of motors run dry sumps - angles can be pretty severe.the only real issue is driveline angles - there you're limited to about 12 degrees (with appropriate CV joints) before the joint starts binding and breaking....
                    STINEY likes this.
                    Doing it all wrong since 1966

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                    • #11

                      Re: Engine angles and placement .

                      as stated a 200R4 (grand nationals had em ) fits like a th350, same x-member, mount, driveshaft and all.
                      little nitpick....not quite. The rear mount is five and a half inches further back on a 200-4R compared to a TH350. Sometimes it's a problem, sometimes not.



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                      • #12

                        Re: Engine angles and placement .


                        little nitpick....not quite. The rear mount is five and a half inches further back on a 200-4R compared to a TH350. Sometimes it's a problem, sometimes not.


                        it is an issue on g bodys and 78 up a bodys as the frame doesn't have the metal to just slide the crossmember back.
                        They really cut any extra weight out of those cars.

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                        • #13

                          Re: Engine angles and placement .

                          they must have done something to deal with it, perhaps made a different crossmember? because the trans was used in a lot of those cars.

                          58-64 chevys are fun, with the X frame. You can buy a custom crossmember to make them work, or build something.

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                          • #14

                            Re: Engine angles and placement .


                            little nitpick....not quite. The rear mount is five and a half inches further back on a 200-4R compared to a TH350. Sometimes it's a problem, sometimes not.


                            thats right, think we welded a pad off rear of stock x-member to fit--
                            i think it took same rubber/poly mount as the th350 that was in there
                            if i recall correctly, its been 15+ years.....

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                            • #15

                              Re: Engine angles and placement .

                              yup, same mount, but you gotta cut a chunk out of the crossmember and cantilever it rearwards, if the crossmember won't slide back far enough.

                              My fabulous web page

                              "If it don't go, chrome it!" --Stroker McGurk

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