Muncie 4 speed rebuild kit

[anotheridiot]

Anyone redone one of these recently. I say recently since I have not had mine open for 30 years. I see they do offer forged synchro rings and that is what you are supposed to look for.

I was searching around for a kit, and the one place I found I gave the tag number, and they said they have no records of this number tag. Any site says its from a 1970 model veHickel.

I had looked on ebay and all they claim to have are spline counts, pin size and front bearing diameter, so I thought finding an actual shop would be a little safer. All they asked me for was spline count, pin size and front bearing diameter.

[squirrel]

it's been a while...but....what is your concern? There are 2 different spline main drive gears (that's the input shaft), one for the M20 and M21, and a different one for the M22. There are also two different counter shaft diameters, early and late.

The gears are different between the M20 and M21, but they don't get replaced during a normal overhaul, so you don't need to know which it is.

I always take a transmission apart and inspect the parts to know what I need, before I order an parts. And at that time I make sure which exact parts I need, so I order the right ones. ie. look at bearing numbers, measure shaft sizes, count splines or teeth, etc.

[rightpedal]

I had pretty good luck with Paul Cangialosi's video series and web site. I get that his video series is about selling parts and services. My m20 was my one and only trans rebuild. Going on six years it still works great. His rebuild kits are a little more than ebay but he was very responsive to my emailed questions and the video took all of the newbe apprehension out of the process.

https://www.youtube.com/user/GearWorldTV/featured

http://www.5speeds.com/muncie/home/identification/


They need a web developer really bad. I just cruised through the website and it has the info but it is clunky at best. i just called and emailed when I used them.

[anotheridiot]

it's been a while...but....what is your concern? There are 2 different spline main drive gears (that's the input shaft), one for the M20 and M21, and a different one for the M22. There are also two different counter shaft diameters, early and late.

The gears are different between the M20 and M21, but they don't get replaced during a normal overhaul, so you don't need to know which it is.

I always take a transmission apart and inspect the parts to know what I need, before I order an parts. And at that time I make sure which exact parts I need, so I order the right ones. ie. look at bearing numbers, measure shaft sizes, count splines or teeth, etc.

concern is leaving something apart and forgetting how it goes back together and not getting some crap kit that will have me doing it all over again, or giving up on the 4 speed and getting an automatic again.

[anotheridiot]

I had pretty good luck with Paul Cangialosi's video series and web site. I get that his video series is about selling parts and services. My m20 was my one and only trans rebuild. Going on six years it still works great. His rebuild kits are a little more than ebay but he was very responsive to my emailed questions and the video took all of the newbe apprehension out of the process.

https://www.youtube.com/user/GearWorldTV/featured

http://www.5speeds.com/muncie/home/identification/


They need a web developer really bad. I just cruised through the website and it has the info but it is clunky at best. i just called and emailed when I used them.

Thanks, I will send him an email. At least the kits on his site are saying its the forged synchro rings, I will see if they give me any better tag answers or if its just standard to tear it down before ordering stuff.

[squirrel]

Seems today lots of guys have to order a kit consisting of every part that can be replaced, before they'll take anything apart. In the old days, it was standard practice to take it apart and see what it needs, then buy the parts.

So....yeah, it used to be standard to tear it apart first. Now it's standard to just replace everything.

we've gone from a bunch of diagnosers and repairers, to a bunch of parts replacers.

[anotheridiot]

Seems today lots of guys have to order a kit consisting of every part that can be replaced, before they'll take anything apart. In the old days, it was standard practice to take it apart and see what it needs, then buy the parts.

So....yeah, it used to be standard to tear it apart first. Now it's standard to just replace everything.

we've gone from a bunch of diagnosers and repairers, to a bunch of parts replacers.

I agree with that, hate you cant fix a modern car without being told what to change, but in my case, I would love to be smart enough to know exactly what was wrong. My mentality is synchros are bad. But if I dont have a new one in my hand, I cant tell what is wrong with the one in the unit. I just dont want to get back into that thing and have to change the one part I should have replaced.

[squirrel]

post pictures, now we have the internet, so if you want, you can get experts (and non experts, unfortunately) to look over your shoulder and advise you.

The brass synchro rings do wear out, and can break. But if they're in bad shape, its likely that there are other "hard parts" that are also worn out. Most of the skill in rebuilding manual transmissions, is in knowing how to spot worn parts, and replacing those parts which need it, but not those which don't.

[JamesMayberryIII]

autogear.com
they have new gears and made in Italy .

[SuperBuickGuy]

Given the state of current bearing suppliers and the hit/miss of whether you're getting quality parts - replace what is necessary. At most seals, shift fork teflons, and synchros. There is little reason to replace bearings.

As for specific parts, which Muncie is it? there are some upgrades available, but they are (both BorgWarner and Muncie) pretty stout transmissions from the factory.

and with that said, there are different 1st gear ratios - which you may wish to look at changing depending on what you're putting it in....

as for upgrades, carbon synchros are one and depending on the bearing arrangement (again, no idea which trans you have) there are some upgrades for some transmissions (usually a BW issue, but it's there in muncie as well)

[anotheridiot]

Well, back to the muncie. We need to pull the motor in the Camaro to change the oil pan that never stopped leaking from day 1. He is considering giving up on the 700R4 that has been nothing but headaches. I found a guy within 100 miles of me that had a T10 from a 62 vette. Thought it was pretty sweet, but eventually ended up realizing that GM went away from them when their muscle cars were coming stock with 375 horse.

Either way, got all the bits and pieces from the chevelle pulled together, the big monster cast iron bell housing I used. Ended up finding another muncie with an SFI bell housing. When I got to that place, only 40 miles one way, the 3-4 shift lever has a big threaded stud and nut on it, apparently keeping it from shifting into fourth. I have not been brave enough to take off the side cover, to see if there are gears missing or blown up parts inside, so I just wondered if anyone has ever seen this happen. Did they just want a three speed, did they not have a proper shifter so they always had third gear, or does isolating it just have them use it as a 2 speed, like maybe a stump puller, monster truck, deal.

Dammit I wish I knew more about this stuff I want to use. So I know there is some knowledge that has helped me here. I guess the money was worth the bell housing and the case is clean, oil is clear, rotates real nice for first and second, just hoping to get an answer on why this would be done.

[squirrel]

pictures are oh so helpful....

[Deaf Bob]

My first 57 had a 3 speed shifter on the Muncie.. Another lever for R.

[anotheridiot]

Sorry, this snow in chicago yesterday had me scrambling to get all the parts I scavenged off the plow jeep to get the driver jeep going back on the plow jeep. I only get sun on half my lot.

Either way, this is on the front lever and the other strange part is that is a brass nut on that lever and steel on the other. The guy claimed he did automatic transmissions on a bench for a living, sounded just like the tear down guy, but said he did not know anything about it, other than it was really wrapped up well when he got it so he felt someone was protecting a good piece. The story was that he got it in trade for some other work.

[anotheridiot]

My first 57 had a 3 speed shifter on the Muncie.. Another lever for R.

that was what I was thinking, just seemed like alot of work to do to lock out third. Was third always engaged when you ran first and second?