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  • Chrysler Starters

    Ok guys I'm coming back here for some Chrysler help.

    I'm a Chevy/foreign car guy so I'm lost on some of these Chrysler things. Remember my car is a 65 Vette with a 57 Chrysler 392 Hemi.

    Now my problem. When I start the car I can't shut off the starter. I switch the ignition back and forth but the starter keeps running. So I had the starter and piggyback solenoid rebuilt by Napa., No luck it still runs on.

    Now the odd part. There is a separate solenoid on the frame near the starter??? I replaced that today and it still runs on. Now this combination was put together by a shop in the SFO bay area that built Hemi's for the drag race crowd, so, could this be a smaller starter for weight savings on this big block and hence requires two solenoids?? OR, is this common with older Hemi engines having two solenoids, or, am I missing something.

    The next thing I can think of is the ignition switch. When I first pulled everything apart looking for the problem the switch felt fine. Nice firm switch positions but I feel like I'm missing something. The chassis has only around 45,000 miles but then it has been sitting for a long time so I suppose the ignition switch could be bad, just don't know.

  • #2

    Re: Chrysler Starters

    I'd use an ohm meter on that switch and see what you learn. It sounds like the PO used the old Chevy trick of using a Ford-style solenoid so the on-starter unit doesn't screw up due to heat soaking but that IS a guess. Can you post some pics and/or schematics of what you have?

    Dan

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    • #3

      Re: Chrysler Starters

      I'm going to try an idea from one of the guys on the Corvette forum. I'll disconnect the heavy battery wire from the starter piggyback solenoid and then with a voltmeter or trouble light chase down where the power goes and try to find what stays powered after the key is turned off.

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Chrysler Starters

        sounds like ignition backfeeding, try a one way diode inline like this--
        https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/1003...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

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        • #5

          Re: Chrysler Starters

          sounds like ignition backfeeding, try a one way diode inline like this--
          https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/1003...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
          Good call! I had forgotten about that little gem.

          Dan

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          • #6

            Re: Chrysler Starters

            What I brought up before was not using the r terminal for anything so you just eliminate any back feeding and making sure your start wire on the switch is going to the start side of the solenoid. If you are using both terminals, then you might just simply try reversing the wires since the starter solenoid is staying engaged.If you have multiple wires down there, then just find the one that is coming from the start position of the ignition switch and just hook that one up until it engages and disengages.It always sounds like a run wire is going right back to the start side and keeping it engaged.

            This is all the time, cold start, or restart hot, just every single time? I am sure napa put it in a vice after the rebuild and hit the start of the solenoid before they gave it back to you, so it seems like some wire from that start terminal is also on the run terminal. Just find a 12 volt source from the key to run whatever is getting pulled from that run terminal.

            If you are using the second solenoid, that should kill your battery wire that is going to the starter and it should make the motor stop. I would just remove that to see if you are swapping run wires between the two solenoids somehow.

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            • #7

              Re: Chrysler Starters

              Certainly giving me something to think about. Today I pulled wires and tested for continuity and location, since some are still wrapped up. Made a wiring diagram and some continuity checks. I'm a chevy and foreign car guy so it's hard to figure out why this has that, to me, extra relay??

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              • #8

                Re: Chrysler Starters

                I'd look again for CHANGES. It didn't always stick, right?
                My hobby is needing a hobby.

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                • #9

                  Re: Chrysler Starters

                  Certainly giving me something to think about. Today I pulled wires and tested for continuity and location, since some are still wrapped up. Made a wiring diagram and some continuity checks. I'm a chevy and foreign car guy so it's hard to figure out why this has that, to me, extra relay??
                  I am a chevy guy too, so I never understood the ford solenoid. I put a battery in the trunk of my 66 when I was working on it 30 years ago just so the positive was not energized all the time since it was running under the car. That is why, if it always sticks, using that solenoid to kill the positive cable to the starter would take away the power from it turning and hopefully disengage the gear from the flexplate.

                  The wiring you are checking is the other reason I dont like to use the r terminal, all those 12v positive wires wrapped together so a short somewhere along that circuit just puts power back to the start terminal. If you used that second solenoid to kill the positive cable, you would not have 12 v at r anymore anyway. It really does not take much to just run two new wires from your ignition switch, one to the starter and one to your ignition and switch on location of the fuse box.

                  It is usually a header clearance problem that fries the solenoid where the car wont start when the car has been running a while, so a smaller starter helps create some space, I just dont think any starter will change anything since its how the power is coming down thru the wiring.

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                  • #10

                    Re: Chrysler Starters

                    I never noticed if derby guys running mopars ran 24 volts or not.
                    My experience running 24 volts was not great.. Guess run on is not important to others ..
                    How 24/12 works is you have 2 brass lugs that the big starter (power) wire hits. One brass will be 2 batteries in 24, other in 12. Hard to start, hit 24.
                    I could feel the starter slow to disengage as the starter actuating wire is short. Lug to lug. Turns out apparantly depowering the main power, the selinoid does not have juice to disengage.

                    Since this cropped up after sitting, I will say you have a corroded connection somewhere.

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                    • #11

                      Re: Chrysler Starters

                      We have run 24, 36 and 48 volts to a starter on a dragster, just spins the motor twice as fast with the 24, three times as fast with 36 and so on, but it was more to get the magneto spinning fast enough to create a hotter spark to light the nitromethane..

                      I dont know know it is part of this unless I missed the point he was running 24 volts. There is an extra 12 volts that is staying hot on the start terminal to keep it engaged.

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                      • #12

                        Re: Chrysler Starters

                        Anotheridiot
                        I was pointing out the fact running 2 selinoids sometimes keeps starters running..

                        I'm sure you have a certain set up to run all that voltage thru a starter.

                        I've had worn bushings do this too.. But since it was rebuilt, I'm thinking it s not a factor.

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Chrysler Starters

                          Anotheridiot
                          I was pointing out the fact running 2 selinoids sometimes keeps starters running..

                          I'm sure you have a certain set up to run all that voltage thru a starter.

                          I've had worn bushings do this too.. But since it was rebuilt, I'm thinking it s not a factor.
                          The set up was simply adding batteries and running them in parallel. connect the negative of the first battery to the positive of the second battery. You end up with a positive lead and a negative lead that give you 24, just keep going to get 36 or 48. When you want to increase the amp output of the batteries, you run them in series, like a jumper cable setup. The extra voltage spins the starter twice as fast, or three times, or four times. This is helpful with high compression or blower motors with big needs. In this case, you would not want to use run anyway. We would just plug the batteries in for start only.

                          I can see the second solenoid keeping the starter engaged if they are all running to the same terminal, or reversed on one of them. That is just why I say remove all wires, just find the single wire that is to start. Does not matter if the ignition is getting power, all you are trying to do is find the one wire that engages the starter. Once that is found, then you just have to get your power to the run needs of the car.

                          I think the second solenoid could help by just cutting the battery cable to the start motor, but doing that you lose everything coming off the run side anyway.
                          Last edited by anotheridiot; August 11th, 2019, 07:29 AM.
                          Deaf Bob likes this.

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                          • #14

                            Re: Chrysler Starters

                            In the beginning of my troubleshooting I had checked the ignition switch with my ohm meter and it checked good. Well last weekend I checked again each and every wire and the starter/solenoid and the starter relay. They all checked good. Then siting in the house a thought popped into my head. I have a good battery in the garage so I ran out and hooked it up to the ignition switch. When I'd turn the key to on I had voltage to the ignition terminal. Turn to the start I had voltage to the ignition and solenoid terminal. When I released the key back to on I still had about 3 volts on the solenoid terminal. Tried it several times, still the same.

                            So I tried to find another ignition switch, not very available for some reason, especially the 65. So I did find one on Ebay and it's on the way. We'll see this weekend.

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                            • #15

                              Re: Chrysler Starters

                              I hope its the answer. . I have seen plenty of wiring harnesses going down to the starter, two positives taped wrapped, pulled thru something, eventually chaffed and conducting.. All you might want to do is that same test when you get the new switch but disconnect the wire from the switch and see if the unattached end still carries that 3 volts to see if its feeding back from somewhere. Thats why I like to unwrap the harnesses to see if two are touching together. Then maybe that is where that diode fits in if you want to keep the wiring the same.

                              On my chevelle I just put a starter button on a bracket above the inside of the ash tray. The ignition switch just goes on to provide power to that button. Push the button, flip a switch for ignition and the car starts. You have to slide the ash tray out to feel for the buttons, so they are not in plain site. It was done more to hide it away as a theft deal, for someone who thinks busting the lock with a screwdriver will let them steal the car.

                              After that doing things individually like that keep the critical stuff isolated.

                              I am really surprised that 3 volts keeps the solenoid engaged. I have a 99 jimmy that wont start if the battery is lower than 11.5 with the wonder electronics.

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