Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

[73Nova]

So a guy at work was telling me about mega squirt. Hes got it on his Camaro and runs it with a procharger. He was telling me some stuff but this guy is not a good communicator so ive got some questions. He sent me the Mega squirt website and Ive read through some of it, but before I get all entrenched in this thing Ive got a quick question. Assuming Im running a small block chevy with a single plain intake, whats the bottom line for this mega squirt setup? It sounds really cool but If im going to have a small fortune in this thing i think ill have to pass. So what would all this cost a guy not including the laptop computer.

[JeffMcKC]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

Pretty good price, or I would not be doing it. Scott can help you line out your list of what you will need. DieselGeek

[shaun callaway]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

you can buy prebuilt kits for like 400-500 bucks. then you will need to get a wideband (like innovate). you also have to do some research on throttle bodies(ie accufab) the injectors (you will have to figure out what size would be right for you, fuel rails, fuel pressur guage, electric fuel pump, the sensors.


guys please add if i forgot anything, (which i probably did)

all in all what you will spend on parts for this is by far less than what you will spend on oh say a haltech setup.


scott will chime in here soon enough, in the mean time what type of setup are you running (stock or what)

[TheSilverBuick]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

If it's a Chevy they don't get much cheaper than that. The aftermarket multiport injection manifolds with throttle bodies are dirt cheap compared to any other make. Find any factory fuel injection manifold at the junk yard for the SBC and Megasquirt can run it. Many junkyard parts can be configured to run with Megasquirt (providing the part is good) so cost drops dramatically if you get junkyard parts. Otherwise careful parts selection even new can come easily well under a $1000 most other EFI kits. This is my take on it.

[dieselgeek]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

So a guy at work was telling me about mega squirt. Hes got it on his Camaro and runs it with a procharger. He was telling me some stuff but this guy is not a good communicator so ive got some questions. He sent me the Mega squirt website and Ive read through some of it, but before I get all entrenched in this thing Ive got a quick question. Assuming Im running a small block chevy with a single plain intake, whats the bottom line for this mega squirt setup? It sounds really cool but If im going to have a small fortune in this thing i think ill have to pass. So what would all this cost a guy not including the laptop computer.

bottom line:

Megasquirt is the computer that controls the fuel injectors & fuel pump (and lots of other things, if you want: nitrous, 2-step launch, electric cooling fans, etc.) There are multiple varieties of the computer itself.

First, you pick the Circuit Board you want to run. There's two choices, version 2.2 and version 3.0. Get the version 3.0, it has updated circuits that make the system a lot more reliable, and less susceptible to ignition noise, etc. That board comes in both "kit" form, and preassembled.

Second, you pick the processor: Megasquirt-I or megasquirt-II. MS1 is older, more tested, and my favorite for it's feature-richness (more on that later). Megasquirt-II is more for the hobbyist, a little less tested, but new features are coming out for it every day. It's faster, more expensive, but for most people, not all that necessary.

Third, you decide if you're assembling it yourself, or having it assembled. DIYautotune.com is THE place to go, he's the only megasquirt vendor that does this as a fulltime job and he is GOOD at it. He also sells more EMS units than all the other commercial vendors combined, if that tells you anything... parish8, Gary Hart with the twin turbo studebaker, purplecobra & tommygun, Silver Buick, "the fairmont" from Drag Week, and lots of others run this one happily!

Fourth, there is a megasquirt-based EMS that is a little more "commercial" called the eMS-pro. Available at DIYautotune.com or efisource.com. It comes with a warranty, and ALL of the megasquirt-I features already installed, including cooling fans, boost control, multiple spark outputs for distributorless engines, support for just about every crank and cam sensor out there, the feature list is HUGE. It's more expensive, but for $800ish it outruns a lot of EMS's twice it's price when you compare features. I designed that one, but I have no "interest" i.e. I don't get paid to sell them, I just think it's a good box with hundreds installed and ZERO field failures so far. Chad runs one on Rusty, Goat Racer, CDMBill, JeffMcKC, seered are all running them.


On top of all the choices above, there is SOFTWARE choice to run on the megasquirt itself. MS is a comptuer just like the one you're reading this on; so it has an "operating system" (we call it "firmware") and there are configurations that you create (or copy from someone else) and load onto the computer, using a laptop or PC. Software choices for Megasquirt-I are "Basic Bowling & Grippo" which is what comes default on the MS-1 chip. The free upgrade you want, though, is called "Megasquirt Extra" and adds a TON of features (found here: http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra). Note, most of these features require some hardware additions to a basic megasquirt unless you go with an eMS-pro.

For megasquirt-II, the software choices are again Bowling and Grippo (supports basic fuel, and basic spark/distributor engines) or again, the MS2-Extra software, which again adds a ton of features (distributorless ignition, cam and crank sensor support, nitrous, boost control, etc.).


SO, let's review:

First pick the Circuit board (v2.2, v3.0, possibly eMS-pro?)
Second pick the processor (MS1 or MS2; eMS-pro is only MS1 based, not MS2)
Third pick the software you want to run (B&G basic, or Extra) - remember, this choice is "free"
Fourth consider a unit that's fully warranted and comes with tech support (eMS-pro)


That being said, the above is ONLY the "brains" of the system. Like Shaun said, you need fuel pump, regulator, injectors, rails, lines, a return line to the tank. That's for a Multi-port EFI system. You CAN go with a TBI on lower HP applications (500 or less) and run that also with any megasquirt-based system. TBI's usually have the fuel pressure regulator, and injector(s) built in.


Then, you have to wire it all up. If you do it one circuit at a time, it's not that bad. carjunkiechad and shaun callaway, and Goat Racer, and CDMBill, and purplecobra, all wired theirs up asking questions when they got stuck. There's a nice diagram you follow. It's easy to test each circuit, so if you can follow directions and do things methodically then you will be fine. If you are in a rush, refuse to learn how to measure volts and resistance, then it's not for you. No EMS would be for you in that case, IMO.


I'm sure that created more questions and answers, so post 'em up!!!

-scott

[Two Lane Blacktop]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

Scott (dieselgeek),


A great friend of mine, Bruce Plecan (R.I.P.),

was very complimentary & enthused over the MSqrt,

because he believed it could bring ECM/EFI & systems

management to all the everyday hot-rodders. He'd be

very happy to know that it looks like his hopes are

well on their way to reality, due to guys like you.


Thanks for helping all the eager learners here. ---

[dieselgeek]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

Scott (dieselgeek),


A great friend of mine, Bruce Plecan (R.I.P.),

was very complimentary & enthused over the MSqrt,

because he believed it could bring ECM/EFI & systems

management to all the everyday hot-rodders. He'd be

very happy to know that it looks like his hopes are

well on their way to reality, due to guys like you.


Thanks for helping all the eager learners here. ---

thanks man. Really, all I do for the MS community is testing/proving concepts. A lot of people look at MS and think "that's gotta be junk!!" well, we took it on Drag Week #1 and won a class with it, and have won a class all three years... so that ends the reliability argument real quick.


The guys involved in MS are *experts* in the field of engine management. Many of them worked in OEM EMS development for years. These are the guys who deserve the real credit... Bruce Bowling and Al Grippo, the two original harddware/concept designers. Both are Electrical Engineers, Bruce works as an electronic parts sales engineer, Al works on top secret government projects that he can't talk much about (hint: big lasers for shooting big targets)... Bill Lucas is a retired Motorola employee who designed circuit boards for use in OEM applications, he designed the version 3.0 and eMS-pro boards; Those are your "hardware guys." The next batch of fellas are the "software" guys that added all the features beyond basic fuel and spark; James Murray, in England, races at a tiny little "club racing" drag strip with a Ford Cortina and an aluminum Range Rover v8 in it; the base test car for all Megasquirt enhancements, this thing has run everything from boost to nitrous, traction control to distributorless ignition; next it's getting a turbo LS1 transplant. Ken Culver, I think he's from Detroit, he's the "Rotary Head" but he and James are the principals behind the "Extra" software above. Ken's big on Mazda Rotary engines, if your EMS can run one of them finicky rotaries then it can run anything! Phil Ringwood is another Englishman who contributes to the software. Lance ?? is a canadian who also contributed to hardware and softawre design, and he moderates the MSEFI forums. He's a former FORMULA ONE race car driver, he's somewhat shy about his racing past, but trust me he's a badass. He's very into tuning, fine details, roadcourse racers are the most demanding of their drivability so that's his area of expertise; and there are hundreds of "testers" like me who try new options and approve them for general public release...

I got to meet all these guys in person over the past couple years at various "Mega Meets" and they're a great group of people...

I know it is starting to sound like some kind of cult, but it's really just a grassroots system that works great, is great for "learning" and has a great community of people supporting it. I will admit, there is a lot of information and it can get confusing, but generally there are guys like me all over that can help you pick the parts you need for your particular application.

-scott

[JeffMcKC]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

Scott, has Tom Cruise called you yet?

[BBR]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

MS user here too. ;D

Scott,

What tuning software do you like? Megatune? I have really been thinking about writing a program for my HP48GX calculator (has serial input/output capability - Kermit - Xmodem) to use instead of a laptop. The intent is to be similar to Megaview,so that a guy can have it in the car all the time and fine tune when necessary without having to have a laptop sitting there.

-James

[shaun callaway]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

megatune here

the emspro has a built in usb port (awesome for those guys with new computers)

[purplecobra]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

I just converted a jeep (258 six cyl)to MS using a tbi, Total cost was about $750, Thing runs like a new jeep now! One thing to keep in mind is that all of your electrical systems need to be working 100%. It's well worth it

[dieselgeek]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

MS user here too. ;D

Scott,

What tuning software do you like? Megatune? I have really been thinking about writing a program for my HP48GX calculator (has serial input/output capability - Kermit - Xmodem) to use instead of a laptop. The intent is to be similar to Megaview,so that a guy can have it in the car all the time and fine tune when necessary without having to have a laptop sitting there.

-James

Megatunix is pretty awesome, far better display than Megatune, but Megatune is the "old standby" for me, I usually do a lot of customization and I am good at configuring megatune.

Your HP Calculator idea is a good one, I think it's less necessary to be able to tune with it, but more important to have it as a datalogger. One downside to Megasquirt is not having onboard datalogging, so it's nice to use a palmpilot, Windows PDA, or ??? device as a logger since some places do not let you keep a laptop in an 8-second car during a pass! Palm Logger, or the "LCDash" touchscreen for all
megasquirt versions...

[shaun callaway]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

MS user here too. ;D

Scott,

What tuning software do you like? Megatune? I have really been thinking about writing a program for my HP48GX calculator (has serial input/output capability - Kermit - Xmodem) to use instead of a laptop. The intent is to be similar to Megaview,so that a guy can have it in the car all the time and fine tune when necessary without having to have a laptop sitting there.

-James

Megatunix is pretty awesome, far better display than Megatune, but Megatune is the "old standby" for me, I usually do a lot of customization and I am good at configuring megatune.

Your HP Calculator idea is a good one, I think it's less necessary to be able to tune with it, but more important to have it as a datalogger. One downside to Megasquirt is not having onboard datalogging, so it's nice to use a palmpilot, Windows PDA, or ??? device as a logger since some places do not let you keep a laptop in an 8-second car during a pass! Palm Logger, or the "LCDash" touchscreen for all
megasquirt versions...

this is a nice unit.

scott this is the one that was at the mega meet we had correct.

[BBR]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

I just got to looking and I might just skip trying to make my own HP48 program since older Palm PDA's are so dang cheap. LOL

[JoeyG]

Re: Mega Squirt, whats the bottom line here?

megatune here

the emspro has a built in usb port (awesome for those guys with new computers)

Also I remember Scott telling me it had wireless abilities ;D not to mention still retaining the rs-232 port for older computers.