Octane

[dave.g.in.gansevoort]

about time we had someone here to keep Dan in line...ish.

Didn't work back in A2 doubt if I can now. We were bad influences on each other, and the bosses still let us work together!

And then there was that time with the Crusher Camaro and our dyno cells ... but that is another story

[DanStokes]

I've told the guys on here that the Crusher was when I went from having a career to having a job so I've already spilled that whine.

Dan

[dave.g.in.gansevoort]

Yup! But the flip side of that episode was we got to meet people who made/make a difference in the performance world, thanks to Norm and Scooter. Did I ever tell you about the NASCAR cam Scooter had Billy Godbold send me? They were having some lobe failure issues and they thought I might be able to help. It was a fun interesting little project.

[DanStokes]

Didn't know that story. What was the cause?

Dan

[dave.g.in.gansevoort]

Didn't know that story. What was the cause?

Dan

It's a long story. Next time I see you in person I'll tell you. So now that means we haveto arrange the 4 of us getting together again. Let ME know that we would love to see you guys again.

[SuperBuickGuy]

The finished fuel that is sold has to meet the minimum AKI rating (average of RON and MON) as advertised. When you buy 87 octane, it will be at least 87, I usually see between 87.5 and 88 octane in our testing.10% ethanol adds about 3.5 octane to when blended, but can very depending on grade and other factors, 87 E10 usually uses a base gasoline of about 84 octane fuel. If you buy 87 E0, its using 87 base octane....


Tim Elliott
WA State Dept of Agriculture
Motor Fuel Quality & Enforcement

[DanStokes]

It's a long story. Next time I see you in person I'll tell you. So now that means we haveto arrange the 4 of us getting together again. Let ME know that we would love to see you guys again.

Us too! Now that we're vaccinated we need to work something out.

Dan

[Thumpin455]

They rate the octane AFTER adding ethanol, because it is an octane enhancer in pump gas, as well as a cleaning agent, and oxygenating agent. Ethanol raises the octane so much that they can add 10% of it to 70 octane gasoline and get 89 from it. They are selling you worse crap with the ethanol added. The lighter components that evaporate when it sits and the low flashpoint stuff can be sold when mixed with ethanol. It raises octane a lot more than you think, more than adding race gas to pump gas.

Its just vodka guys. Thats all it is. You might want to look into doing what I do, making it and running E85 for trips, because gas prices are going back up. Over $3 here, so I am headed to fill the E85 barrels tomorrow. Next year I will make a few hundred gallons unless I move to Nebraska.

Methanol uses twice as much, not ethanol. You can get the same and better mileage on ethanol when you crank up the compression, run the engine hotter (like 195-220), don't block off the heat crossover, and let it cool the intake charge for a longer time by putting the fuel in farther up the intake tract. Heating the fuel in the EFI lines, with the return ahead of the regulator so you're not heating everything in the tank can increase mileage a lot in low compression engines. Will be doing that on the C10 when I get around to putting the EFI back on its 6.0.

Engine Masters did a thing on it if you didn't notice. David showed there isn't any difference as long as the engine doesn't need the timing retarded to run on it. E85 picked up power across the RPM range, biggest increase under 3500rpm.

You guys think I am full of shit or something? All of this was explained years ago.

[Captain]

They rate the octane AFTER adding ethanol, because it is an octane enhancer in pump gas, as well as a cleaning agent, and oxygenating agent. Ethanol raises the octane so much that they can add 10% of it to 70 octane gasoline and get 89 from it. They are selling you worse crap with the ethanol added. The lighter components that evaporate when it sits and the low flashpoint stuff can be sold when mixed with ethanol. It raises octane a lot more than you think, more than adding race gas to pump gas.

Its just vodka guys. Thats all it is. You might want to look into doing what I do, making it and running E85 for trips, because gas prices are going back up. Over $3 here, so I am headed to fill the E85 barrels tomorrow. Next year I will make a few hundred gallons unless I move to Nebraska.

Methanol uses twice as much, not ethanol. You can get the same and better mileage on ethanol when you crank up the compression, run the engine hotter (like 195-220), don't block off the heat crossover, and let it cool the intake charge for a longer time by putting the fuel in farther up the intake tract. Heating the fuel in the EFI lines, with the return ahead of the regulator so you're not heating everything in the tank can increase mileage a lot in low compression engines. Will be doing that on the C10 when I get around to putting the EFI back on its 6.0.

Engine Masters did a thing on it if you didn't notice. David showed there isn't any difference as long as the engine doesn't need the timing retarded to run on it. E85 picked up power across the RPM range, biggest increase under 3500rpm.

You guys think I am full of shit or something? All of this was explained years ago.

I'm Listening.......
So, I'm planning some long Trip in my Indy Racer Project.
Engine: Stock Block & Head 1967 Ford 240/300 inline six, 9.7 Compression, Twin Webers on a Clifford's Intake, Cast Iron Dual Exhaust Manifolds
from a 1996 pickup.
So I can just pull up to the E85 pump, fill it up, and do what to make it go ? (I'm Sure I'm Going to hear over the PA System, SIR YOU ARE AT THE WRONG PUMP !!)

[SuperBuickGuy]

They rate the octane AFTER adding ethanol, because it is an octane enhancer in pump gas, as well as a cleaning agent, and oxygenating agent. Ethanol raises the octane so much that they can add 10% of it to 70 octane gasoline and get 89 from it. They are selling you worse crap with the ethanol added. The lighter components that evaporate when it sits and the low flashpoint stuff can be sold when mixed with ethanol. It raises octane a lot more than you think, more than adding race gas to pump gas.

Engine Masters did a thing on it if you didn't notice. David showed there isn't any difference as long as the engine doesn't need the timing retarded to run on it. E85 picked up power across the RPM range, biggest increase under 3500rpm.

You guys think I am full of shit or something? All of this was explained years ago.

- rating.... my question was because Washington State law allows them to do calculate it either way. E10 doesn't matter to me because it's not yet allowed in Washington State (5% max). And seriously, you trust the government? I do trust the chemist for the State of Washington with what he said....
- this latest Engine Masters hit that e85 topic again*
- Dude? seriously? I'd love to see the post where someone called you out about E85.... I can assure you, I've never nor have I ever said bad things about E85 because I liked it the last time it came around in the 80s.... that hasn't changed. All that has changed is you could buy it where I'm at in the 80s, now? not so much. Granted, with gas prices going up - I'm sure E85 will become more available again... except where I live....

*and it was Engine Masters which got me thinking - they kept commenting that the 87 and 91 that they bought came "from the station down the street"... which, to me, isn't a good test subject because you never know what that station did to their fuel....