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Roller lifter bleed down

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  • #16
    try a quart of lucas oil additive or hyperlube, theyre sticky/thick
    like pancake syrup. if it helps, you know its got clearance issues.
    (remember sawdust in a whiney transmission?)

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    • #17
      That filter explanation sounded better to me. I stopped using those extra guard filters when our cam timing actuator started acting up on our ford. They say it reduces oil pressure and that cam actuator is the farthest thing away with the second most important job other than lubricating moving parts. Never heard that brand oil, but I could understand not having those anti flow back valve deals in it, something that might restrict the out going flow as well.

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      • #18
        I'm kinda wondering what the outcome was on this one. I run solid rollers in my car.

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        • #19
          Came back to re read this article since ours is noisy at start up as well and I hate it. For some reason we could not get 3/8ths pushrods at 7.200 length in time to install, left the wider guide plates and changed them back to the smaller ones and it quieted a little. But my bigger issue is that the cam card calls for .000 lash. We got a howards. When I checked around to see what manufacturers required for lash I always saw 0 to 1/8th turn for short travel retrofit lifters.
          Hard to buy it and I understand it would probably make the noise even louder, but maybe that extra lash is putting them past their operating and pushing oil out of the ones that are up when you turn the car off?

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          • #20
            dunno if this is whats going on, but... ive read repeatedly that only
            the oem rollers work, or redzones (oilight bushed, by isky) in
            street applications as none of the aftermarket ones will tolerate
            extended low speed/idle operations....

            that and the initial "buy in" factor (like $1k+ to convert with lifters,
            cam, special length pushrods,etc...) are why i still run flat tappet
            hydraulics in all my cars and will probably continue to do so.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by fatguyzinc View Post
              dunno if this is whats going on, but... ive read repeatedly that only
              the oem rollers work, or redzones (oilight bushed, by isky) in
              street applications as none of the aftermarket ones will tolerate
              extended low speed/idle operations....

              that and the initial "buy in" factor (like $1k+ to convert with lifters,
              cam, special length pushrods,etc...) are why i still run flat tappet
              hydraulics in all my cars and will probably continue to do so.
              It was definitely part of it, but considering the most expensive parts are the lifters and you can change cams without buying another new set of lifters like with the flat tappet. I think that is what ended up getting us to finally make the move, well that and any future order motor will end up being an LS and we will need to learn them anyway

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              • #22
                Im just getting to replacing these lifters. Ive talked with some other guys that have had the same issues with the same builder. I am installing the new Gaterman drop in Gp1013 lifter. Ill post my results soon.
                Attached Files

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                • #23
                  Main difference I see is it is calling for 1/2 turn after zero lash to preload. All the rest I see say to run at zero lash.

                  Where are you ordering them from?
                  Last edited by anotheridiot; December 5, 2022, 04:51 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by anotheridiot View Post
                    Main difference I see is it is calling for 1/2 turn after zero lash to preload. All the rest I see say to run at zero lash.

                    Where are you ordering them from?
                    Zero lash when cold or hot? I'd assume hot after everything is up to temp. and expanded. zero lash cold, will ( I'd assume) have a issue when engine gets hot from alum heads greater expansion rate than the valvetrain's steel parts.
                    I am very green so I might be totally wrong, and most likely am. I do know my solid lifter lash settings changed when I went from iron heads to alum. because of this. Am I incorrect in my thinking?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 2020 mustang View Post

                      Zero lash when cold or hot? I'd assume hot after everything is up to temp. and expanded. zero lash cold, will ( I'd assume) have a issue when engine gets hot from alum heads greater expansion rate than the valvetrain's steel parts.
                      I am very green so I might be totally wrong, and most likely am. I do know my solid lifter lash settings changed when I went from iron heads to alum. because of this. Am I incorrect in my thinking?
                      Remember that roller hydraulics have that piston to absorb differences in the valve train length as a result of heat. Mine on Stanger (5.8 w/Comp Xtreme Energy cam and FMPP roller rockers) uses stock length push rods after careful measuring with a fabricated checking push rod - all that work and they measured out exactly to stock length! Bottom line is that the preload is exactly what Ford built into it: IIRC, just slightly tighter than zero lash. I'm using stock roller hydraulics and have had no issues though the setup really doesn't have too many miles on it even though it's more than 20 years old.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DanStokes View Post

                        Remember that roller hydraulics have that piston to absorb differences in the valve train length as a result of heat. Mine on Stanger (5.8 w/Comp Xtreme Energy cam and FMPP roller rockers) uses stock length push rods after careful measuring with a fabricated checking push rod - all that work and they measured out exactly to stock length! Bottom line is that the preload is exactly what Ford built into it: IIRC, just slightly tighter than zero lash. I'm using stock roller hydraulics and have had no issues though the setup really doesn't have too many miles on it even though it's more than 20 years old.
                        Just for a while here we have all been wondering why you have to trade rollers for noise. The bleed down hit and made all the sense in the world and makes absolutely no sense for them being hydraulic lifters. That is usually what makes you want to stay away from solid lifters. It just got to be the subject that makes no sense at all.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 2020 mustang View Post

                          Zero lash when cold or hot? I'd assume hot after everything is up to temp. and expanded. zero lash cold, will ( I'd assume) have a issue when engine gets hot from alum heads greater expansion rate than the valvetrain's steel parts.
                          I am very green so I might be totally wrong, and most likely am. I do know my solid lifter lash settings changed when I went from iron heads to alum. because of this. Am I incorrect in my thinking?
                          They are in the installation instructions so its cold. I ran solids when we drag raced, and that .022 lash never made any noise, maybe it was the zoomies on the dragster that covered them up, but the whole selling point to hydraulics is that you do not have to get your owners manual out from your 1968 Chevelle and read how to adjust solid lifters every 2 months. By definition hydraulics is using oil to create motion. So when you are at zero on a hydraulic lifter, the pumping does not start until the lifter starts moving. Standard hydraulics you are turning the nut up to one turn after zero lash to keep the lifter in the state of pumping oil.

                          We did just do a cylinder head on a 2.4 ecotec, me thinking a cheap buy and another timing chain job to make a daily driver turned out to be much more work. Either way, they dont necessarily have a lifter opening the valve, they have a lifter on the opposite side of the rocker arm and the rocker rolls on the camshaft. No lash just tighten the cam, but the new "lifters" I bought I could not even close them in a vice to try to get them to fill with oil and it started real noisy.

                          Either way, locating a lifter like this that allows you to properly lash the lifter makes perfect sense that the startup noise will stop.
                          Last edited by anotheridiot; December 9, 2022, 07:11 AM.

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                          • #28
                            I did find a list of dealers on the site, have not called any yet since most were named Erson, Competition Products, Howards cams and howards does not even sell their own stuff anymore.

                            Guess its uncomfortable saying you do not want their lifters but someone elses.
                            Last edited by anotheridiot; December 14, 2022, 06:37 AM.

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                            • #29
                              These are the two places that have the gatetmans currently.
                              Attached Files

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                              • #30
                                Also, I installed the new gaterman 1013 drop ins and they are quiet! Just as I suspected all along, the lifters we're garbage!

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