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gasser steering-push/pull? or cross? steering arms front/rear? etc...

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  • gasser steering-push/pull? or cross? steering arms front/rear? etc...

    while im in maui for a month again, im trying to visualize how to hook up steering
    on the '55 with the straight axle swap. i know "most" guys do cross steer with a
    vega or similar box, but that looks like clearance problems with all kinds of stuff--
    oil pan, leaf springs, shocks, etc...

    anybody got any advice? i havent commited to either way as first im looking at different
    kinds of steering boxes before buying- i only want to buy one, not a mistake and have to
    buy another box....or god forbid, a third box...

    so far, i looked at a RH drive postal jeep box (but on outside of left frame..) a 80s-90s
    toyota pickup steering box (also hangs over top of left frame), vega box, reversed corvair, etc....

    i know some of you (squirrel comes to mind immediately) have "been there/done that",
    so school an ignorant fat boy on pros/cons of either or system please... thank you !

  • #2
    You HIT my 3 suggestions.
    The Trashota Box has a deep reach to the Pittman Arm for working room, also the manual box does steer well as is, but I have always had a Big Steer Wheel with it.
    Power Steering would help with a 13-14" Wheel to clearance Your Beer Goiter......
    Last edited by Captain; September 16, 2021, 06:57 AM.

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    • #3
      This is a question for Dave G. He'll talk our ears off about Ackerman and king pin inclination and such but will eventually give you useful info.

      Dan

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DanStokes View Post
        This is a question for Dave G. He'll talk our ears off about Ackerman and king pin inclination and such but will eventually give you useful info.

        Dan
        This would be a wonderful conversation to follow but my concern would be that at my age, by the time he gets to meaningful info I will have forgotten where we started.

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        • #5
          Okay so I'm wordy! First a question: parallel leafs or some other suspension setup? Parallel leaf is like most older pickup trucks with beam front axles. Basically side steering on the drivers side. Wasn't too bad regarding bump steer. Just get the steering box end of the drag link in line with the spring pivot point looking from the side. That way the length of the drag link is essentially the same as the spring pivot point to the axle. The arc lengths will be very close.

          If you go 4 bar side steering can be made to work, you just need to make the drag link the same length as the 4 bars, and get them parallel. You've basically got a 4 bar linkage. The arcs will all be the same. This means that the steering box will be a small distance in front of the mounting points for the 4 bars on the frame rails.

          If you go cross steer with a 4 bar, the drag link needs to be the same length as the panhard bar, and parallel to it, so again it looks like a 4 bar linkage. The arc lengths will be very close to the same here also.

          If you plan on using either hairpins or split Ford wishbones, cross steer as above will work okay, unless you use a cross spring with no panhard bar. This could be a very witchy setup. I personally wouldn't go that route. The Whatever is goin to get a panhard bar eventually but I'm putting it off until more stuff is further along. I need to know what is going to be in the way...

          Old Ford style with side steering needs to have the drag link rear pivot point as close to being over the pivot point of the hairpin or split bone as possible. 2nd best is have the drag link pass over the bones pivot point. It's not perfect but minimizes bump steer.

          Take a look at Pete and Jake's website. They have all this explained with drawings.

          Okay so not terribly wordy!

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          • #6
            I KNEW you would have useful stuff! He ARE an enginerd. And Dave knows what he's talking about.

            Dan

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            • #7
              I'm old too. Thank God there's pictures somewhere.
              Ed, Mary, & 'Earl'
              HRPT LongHaulers, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19.


              Inside every old person is a young person wondering, "what the hell happened?"

              The man at the top of the mountain didn't fall there. -Vince Lombardi

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              • #8
                parallel leafs, i used speedways gasser kit axle. im seriously thinking push pull only
                because thats whats on my K5 and im familiar with it. plus like i said way less stuff
                in the way of box/draglink.

                Click image for larger version

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by fatguyzinc View Post
                  parallel leafs, i used speedways gasser kit axle. im seriously thinking push pull only
                  because thats whats on my K5 and im familiar with it. plus like i said way less stuff
                  in the way of box/draglink.

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	my55finally.jpg Views:	0 Size:	98.3 KB ID:	1306343
                  I think that is a good choice. I'm using a Vega steering box in the Whatever project in cross steer setup. However when I was looking at the Borgeson web site, I saw that they offered a reversed Vega steering box. That would allow the pitman arm to hang down instead of pointing up. They were out of stock 3 months ago, but may have them now.

                  However, you might want to use a stronger box like the 500 series Saginaw/Borgeson box. With ingenuity any GM manual box can be reversed. Further, if you have space issues you might consider putting the box in front of the axle, again in line with the spring pivot point, in your case the shackles, to minimize bump steer.

                  And I really like the stance of your car just as it sits, nosebleed high nose and all!
                  Last edited by dave.g.in.gansevoort; September 17, 2021, 07:26 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Unisteer makes a nice one sided rack and pinion setup to replace the Vega cross steering setup
                    Patrick & Tammy
                    - Long Haulin' 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014...Addicting isn't it...??

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by silver_bullet View Post
                      Unisteer makes a nice one sided rack and pinion setup to replace the Vega cross steering setup
                      I pondered rack and pinion off a front axle..
                      Then I looked at most systems, lawdy! They huge. Then found out how little I know.
                      But I do know I like R&P in the Vic better than the Buick

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by silver_bullet View Post
                        Unisteer makes a nice one sided rack and pinion setup to replace the Vega cross steering setup
                        That's a good suggestion too. It's probably more rugged than a Vega steering box also.

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                        • #13
                          is the unisteer the one with the gold plated gears? must be for those prices....

                          the search for a suitable box continues. still torn on whether the steering arms
                          and drag link should go in front or behind axle.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fatguyzinc View Post
                            is the unisteer the one with the gold plated gears? must be for those prices....

                            the search for a suitable box continues. still torn on whether the steering arms
                            and drag link should go in front or behind axle.
                            Depending on clearance, either way can be made to work. Easier to get Ackerman correct in the rear, but it's not impossible when front of the axle. And theoretically perfect geometry is what suspension engineers shoot for. However, modern radial tires work differently than the old bias ply tires did. My point, close is probably good enough for today's tires.

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                            • #15
                              as posted in the project section, the decision was made for me--
                              got a new/reman vega box, piman arm, and mounting bracket for
                              around $160 shipping included-so thats the way i ended up going.

                              hopefully i get home soon and can put some more work into both
                              the 55 and the 48 before i gotta leave again. traveling SUCKS, 2X
                              more now with covid [email protected] to deal with.

                              love how theyre constantly blaring "social distancing, 6ft apart, wear
                              your mask at all times, blah blah blah", and they took out half the chairs
                              at the gate so people are sprawled out all over the carpet--
                              yet they pack us on the plane like sardines,
                              no empty chairs...
                              i mean, they cant lose money on the flights i guess......
                              i tell you, hypocrisy REALLY pisses me off.
                              Last edited by fatguyzinc; October 19, 2021, 07:49 PM.

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