Yet again with coilovers

[anotheridiot]

Man, I hate these new things. I know you are supposed to put the car on scales and pick springs from there, at this point, we probably could have paid for them.

From QA1's site, 67-69 F Body, average weights are 1950 front, 1500 back. Recommended springs 500 (with small block) 250 back.

Just from this statement, it does not make sense. Only, 450 pounds lighter in the back, but only needs half the springs?

We went thru recommendations, got the standard kit for the fronts, experts started us at 180 pound springs, we are up to 350 in the back and the only way the tire does not rub on the turn was by turning up both compression and rebound all the way up to 18 on the shocks and changed from a 30 degree mount to straight up and down ( which should have reduced spring capacity since the spring rate increases on the angle) and finally got to about 1/4 inch clearance when turning.

Can anyone beat this into my head like a good old glass headlamp that needs a pounding to start working again? I would really like to be able to go for a ride with my son in this car and putting my ass in there needs to get this figured out over this winter.

My mind is saying we gotta go to 600 in the front and at least 450 (minimum) in the back to be able to allow these shocks to be able to get tuned.

[fatguyzinc]

in my experience, most spring companies tend to vastly underestimate how
much rate you need, prefering to .sneek up' on it a little at a time till they get
it right. dont want com[plaints about too stiff, too bouncy.....

and thats fine-- if theyre paying for it and doing the work.

id say 600 to 850 front and 450-600 rears, depending on driving style.

if the spring is rated 250, and the rear weight is 1500, that means each spring
needs to support 750 MINUMUM to hold car up, much less drive spiritedly.
and that also means each spring will compress at ride height 3 inches right
off the bat.

im with you on your guessed target weights. and i too hate doing, redoing,
and reredoing work because some 'expert' keeps steering me wrong.

[anotheridiot]

Thats the thing, I am at the f*** it stage, but part of me wonders if the shock absorber stops working if you go way overboard on the springs. Having the coilovers at full turn in we might as well just have kept the air shocks on it. We are also using 9" springs in the back and the shocks are supposed to take 9 or 10 inch springs. These 350 springs are already compressed over 2 inches, that is the current set up on the shock, with another 10 inch spring held up next to. They are turned a little more than half way up. So a 600 pound rear spring that is 10 inches might be too high before we even start turning.

Just double checked and the recommended sale from Summit two years ago were the coilover kits with the 450 springs in the front because it was stock 67 Camaro. I knew I was in a battle with the rears since we made the 4 link for it and have been flying by the seat of our pants trying to learn this crap.

[fatguyzinc]

if youre up to 350 in rear and the shocks are maxed out already, another 50lbs aint gonna cut it...
so id START at 450 or even more depending on location, driving style, power, etc.....

just my , i totally get the frustration and wanting to just say f@rk it.

[anotheridiot]

We built the top mount 6 inches wide with spacers cut to fill up the empty space to change the angle if we needed to. The rears are a real nice height now going straight up and down with 2 1/2 inches, but drops to a quarter on a hard move. Raising the front lowers the rears so its a balancing act being at these low spring numbers, even though they are higher than recommended in the back. We need more in the front, so going to the 600's there and figure moving to 550 in the rear is what they recommended plus what we needed.

Want to upgrade to tubular control arms in the front and now I see all of them give the car a 1-2" drop so its back to the drawing board again, dig out the old spindles to go that route or we will have 3-4 inch drop and most likely rub anyway.

You figure you put 1500 into coil overs and have all kinds of adjustment, they did not say you will have 500 in extra springs once you figure it out. 200 in the back never made sense, guess at least we were right about that.

Thanks for your replies.

[anotheridiot]

so far so good. went to 550 in the back and set the coilovers to halfway set again and they are no longer holding up the car. The Shocks also said we could run either 9 or 10 inch springs so got them in 10", actually had to compress them a little to get them installed. I figured I could at least use these on the Chevelle instead of them sitting on a shelf. We could not bounce the car before and now we can, so something is good.

So back to the same old same old, did the tension fix it or did the extra inch of spring make a difference.

Got my chinese control arms and 600 pound fronts that had to come from QA1 direct so maybe we can get it done this weekend before the weather turns too much.

[anotheridiot]

600 on the front. probably could have gone to the stock spindles again, but the spring pocket is definitely lower in the control arm, the shock mounting flat did not look much different, but we have been cranking up little by little. cannot bounce the front like the back though. Always amazing to me driving next to the car and watching suspension actually operate. car stays level, wheel goes down in the holes.
Just trying to get some information out there for the F Body guys before they start spending dollars on springs, even if its start with a gap in pressures.

[anotheridiot]

dealing with this again, rear is stiff as a board. Cannot compress, if I try to lift up the body, I see the tires wanting to leave the ground. So Wednesday we made up some brackets and added a sway bar. Welded two points for the bolts towards the rear of the car and some brackets off the shock mounts and the body roll finally stopped. I guess people get engineering degrees to learn this stuff, idiot me sees a massive solid rear axle with 3 1/2" , 1/4" wall chrome moly tubes tubes and how could it sway.

We had a heavy front sway bar for a camaro we never had the right bushings for, but that was not shaped right. The Chevelle had a better shape to it to go around the gas tank and raise the ends higher, but something is still slapping. Found a kit for a 82 camaro on Rock auto after seeing one on vivid racing. 109 on vivid, 52 at rock auto so got one in yesterday already. Has a better bottom shape like a rear end, will see if it clear better.

Then I guess we see if we go back to 200 pound springs.

So just another thread I start to get ideas and keep a record that turned into showing my mistakes so maybe our members will avoid them.

Living up to my name as usual. I am fine being an idiot, I will feel stupid if I stop trying.